jillybean Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [hv=pc=n&s=s7haqt98d864cakt6&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=p1sp2hp3cp]133|200[/hv] MP's, your bid please add comments too :) by agreement, 3♣ does not show any extra's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [hv=pc=n&s=s7haqt98d864cakt6&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=p1sp2hp3cp]133|200[/hv] MP's, your bid please add comments too :) by agreement, 3♣ does not show any extra's This would be a much easier question if this were IMPs. Even though this is MP, I think that I'm going to bid 4♣ and investigate a club slam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel_k Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 If 3♣ showed extras I would bid 4♣, but at matchpoints I think it is too risky to bypass 3NT so will bid 3♦. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 If I held sufficient strength for a clear slam move and diamond control, RKCB. Ideally 4♦ Kickback, but 4NT if that's what you play. With either insufficient strength to commit or a lack of a diamond control, or both, I have a problem. Style is key here. My thinking is that 3♦ sounds like a notrump probe and thus sounds like a lack of diamond cards. I like to be consistent. Thus... 3♦...4♣ = slam interest without a diamond control4♣ direct, slam interest with a diamond control, insufficient strength to commit (4NT possible final contract if 4♦ is then Kickback RKCB). You could reverse this if this is your style. You may notice that strength is not defined as to the 3♦...4♣ sequence, in that Responder might have a bunch or just a little. In that event, I like to play that 4♦ by Opener would NOT be kickback but rather "Last Train," a cue of diamonds showing that control but insufficient strenght to commit. With control AND sufficient strength, the cheapest out-of-focus major is the substitute RKCB. That might get complicated. With regular 4NT as RKCB, though, this works fine, as 4♦ is not a problem bid. So, using 4NT as RKCB: 4NT = diamond control plus sufficient strength4♣ = diamond control, needs help3♦...4♣ = needs diamond control (partner bids 4NT with it and extras, 4♦ with it but no extras). Using Kickback: 4NT = diamond control plus sufficient strength4♣ = diamond control, needs help3♦...4♣ = needs control (4♦ has it but no extras; 4♥/♠ = has it RKCB) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 4C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [hv=pc=n&s=s7haqt98d864cakt6&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=p1sp2hp3cp]133|200[/hv] MP's, your bid please add comments too :) by agreement, 3♣ does not show any extra's4C now.... 4D then becomes kickback by partner when suit agreement is on the 4-level. If he by-passes 4D ( because of a lack of a Diam Ctrl ) and cues 4H or 4S instead, you will sign-off in 5C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 I bid 3♦ just to keep the options open and delay the pain keeping the mirage of 3nt in play. I don't even know if I want to play there if pard bids it! I suspect this hand belongs in 5♣ (which if it's the right spot the hand should be barred at matchpoints) and the 4♣ bidders are headed there as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted September 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 If you bid 3♦ partner bids 3N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 3D, FSF - what else? Unless it is not FSF, in which case you will have to bid 3H. And if p bids 3NT over 3D, I will pass, I dont have add. values. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 4♣. If I had to make one bid now it would be 6♣. Its important to understand that 3♣ shows extras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 If you bid 3♦ partner bids 3N That should usually show a stiff ♥ so I'm on my way to 5♣ bidding 4♣ along the way as a mild slam try. Partner has not shown extra's in your style but hasn't denied them (shape wise) either. 3nt seems likely to be just in at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 by agreement, 3♣ does not show any extra'sIts important to understand that 3♣ showsshould show extras.Is that what you meant, Phil? If so, I agree regardless of whether the system is 2/1 or STD. But, with OP conditions, I think we have to bid 4C anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Is that what you meant, Phil? If so, I agree regardless of whether the system is 2/1 or STD. But, with OP conditions, I think we have to bid 4C anyway. Even if JB is playing standard (snipe removed by self-moderator), 3♣ shows extras since its a high reverse. Only in Hardy does 3♣ not show extras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Only in Hardy does 3♣ not show extras.There are a few passages in the Hardy texts where he implies that high reverses after 2/1 do show extras. One can be found on pg 20 of the orange book refering to example "c" on the previous page: (after 1S-2H) "opener is not strong enough to rebid 3D". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted October 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 Even if JB is playing standard (snipe removed by self-moderator), 3♣ shows extras since its a high reverse. Only in Hardy does 3♣ not show extras. I play that 3♣ shows extras. When the hand was given to me I asked, 3♣ shows extras? and the answer was "no, it shows shape", so I included that as one of the conditions of the question. So snipe all you like, I dislike the approach too. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 I hope this hand makes it obvious why playing 3C doesn't show extras in a non-precision context is very poor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted October 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 The full hand [hv=pc=n&s=s7haqt98d864cakt6&w=s8hk7543dat532c84&n=skqt52hdkqj7cq932&e=saj9643hj62d9cj75&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1sp2hp3cp4cp5cppp]399|300[/hv] South can rescue the auction by bidding 3♦ rather than 4♣. My auction would have been 1♠:2♥:2♠:3♣:3N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 The full hand [hv=pc=n&s=s7haqt98d864cakt6&w=s8hk7543dat532c84&n=skqt52hdkqj7cq932&e=saj9643hj62d9cj75&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1sp2hp3cp4cp5cppp]399|300[/hv] South can rescue the auction by bidding 3♦ rather than 4♣. My auction would have been 1♠:2♥:2♠:3♣:3NYour auction would have been reasonable. It is often the case that a player can rescue the auction from partner's ill-conceived bid by making another ill-conceived bid. Two wrongs sometimes work out right. But I never know when to do that, so frequently just play the role of "straight man" in the comedy routine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheoKole Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 3 ♦, 4th suit if partner bids 3 NT I would bid 4 ♣ which should clearly be a slam try in ♣, why would you go above game if you did not want to investigate a slam? 4 NT by partner should be a clear sign off at this point, which I would expect with QJx. If partner cue bids 4 ♦ I will cue bid 4 ♥, if he cue bids 4 ♥, I will sign off in 6 ♣. Good luck, Theo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahydra Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Agree with Theo - seems sensible. Also agree with your auction to 3NT. 5C isn't a complete disaster on the actual hand - just unlucky there's a ghastly spade break and a diamond ruff. ahydra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 3 ♦, 4th suit if partner bids 3 NT I would bid 4 ♣ which should clearly be a slam try in ♣, why would you go above game if you did not want to investigate a slam? I hate to mention the "G" word, but I suspect that some people would treat 4♣ as an Ace ask... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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