TMorris Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 The ban on psyching is presumably to stop the more experienced players who enter the novice game from putting off the novices. This seems very sensible to me and will be simpler than banning players from the game altogether. After all a few more experienced players in a novice game will help them to learn. Surely the EBU won't be concerned about such a situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 If I wanted to shoot fish in a barrel, I'd go find a gun and a barrel full of fish. If I wanted to steal candy from babies, I'd go find some babies with candy. Psyching against novices is not something any reasonable experienced player should be interested in. As for allowing non-novices in novice games, once you do that it's no longer a novice game. Besides that, IME, most of the novices don't like it, regardless whether the non-novices ever psych. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMorris Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Whilst I agree with you about playing in a novice game there are plenty who do not. There are plenty who like beating up novices to get master points & psyching to show how clever they are is all part of the fun. At least there are in the UK maybe the US is different. Regarding allowing non-novices in a novice game all you have to do is decide who is not a novice. When you are an amateur non-paid playing director and someone turns up who you think might be too good for the game or might not, many opt for a quiet life. Something like not psyching is more easily recognisable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Psyching against novices is not something any reasonable experienced player should be interested in.Then no harm is done by prohibiting psyches in a novice game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Then no harm is done by prohibiting psyches in a novice game. What is your goal? Producing bridge players or hothouse flowers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMorris Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Possibly the goal is not putting people off whilst they are still learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Possibly the goal is not putting people off whilst they are still learning. Far better to invest a bunch of time and effort training novices and then see them quit when they hit the real games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Then no harm is done by prohibiting psyches in a novice game. I'm not so sure about that. It may make the novice players happy. It may make them more unhappy than they might otherwise be when they find out their "no psych" rule isn't universal. It may make them stay (or try to stay) in the novice game forever. It may lead the club owner/TD down the path of thinking that if he can ban psychs he can do other things the rules say he cannot. (I had a very experienced club director tell me once "I can make any ruling I want!" She was not pleased when I replied "yes, you can, but that won't necessarily make it a legal ruling." There may be other detrimental effects I haven't thought of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) I'm not so sure about that. It may make the novice players happy. It may make them more unhappy than they might otherwise be when they find out their "no psych" rule isn't universal. It may make them stay (or try to stay) in the novice game forever.If those things happen, none of them are anybody's business except the club owner's and the players'. It may lead the club owner/TD down the path of thinking that if he can ban psychs he can do other things the rules say he cannot. (I had a very experienced club director tell me once "I can make any ruling I want!" She was not pleased when I replied "yes, you can, but that won't necessarily make it a legal ruling." There may be other detrimental effects I haven't thought of. A club owner *can* make whatever rules he wants, or make any ruling he wants - it's his club. He just can't do it under the auspices of the WBF or its affiliates. Edited September 29, 2011 by gnasher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campboy Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 A club owner *can* make whatever rules he wants, or make any ruling he wants - it's his club. He just can't do it under the auspices of the WBF or its affiliates.I think there is a reasonable expectation if entering a duplicate bridge tournament that it is played according to the Laws of Duplicate Bridge. If it is not then the organiser of the tournament should make this quite clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 I think there is a reasonable expectation if entering a duplicate bridge tournament that it is played according to the Laws of Duplicate Bridge. If it is not then the organiser of the tournament should make this quite clear.Yes. Didn't I say that already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 There are plenty who like beating up novices to get master points & psyching to show how clever they are is all part of the fun. But as has already been established by several posters, players cannot receive masterpoints (at least, not from the NBO) in a game where psyching is prohibited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 But as has already been established by several posters, players cannot receive masterpoints (at least, not from the NBO) in a game where psyching is prohibited.At my local club (Germany) psyches are limited to 1 per tournament night and they give out masterpoints quite happily. Note that, for example, opening a 3rd seat weak 2 on AKQxx and out or opening 1NT with any singleton are regarded as psyches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campboy Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Yes. Didn't I say that already?For having special club rules, yes you did, but there is a difference between "a club owner can make any ruling he wants" and "a club owner can make any ruling which is justified by previously announced local regulations". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 At my local club (Germany) psyches are limited to 1 per tournament night and they give out masterpoints quite happily. Note that, for example, opening a 3rd seat weak 2 on AKQxx and out or opening 1NT with any singleton are regarded as psyches.It wouldn't surprise me if a club or two in the ACBL has some rules which would render them technically ineligible to issue masterpoints for a game, as well. If so, shame on them. The key is whether the ACBL is aware of it. If it is, shame on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 At my local club (Germany) psyches are limited to 1 per tournament night and they give out masterpoints quite happily. Note that, for example, opening a 3rd seat weak 2 on AKQxx and out or opening 1NT with any singleton are regarded as psyches. 1. Does your NBO delegate or assign RA powers to clubs?2. Is your NBO aware that your local club violates the laws in this way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axman Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 I think there is a reasonable expectation if entering a duplicate bridge tournament that it is played according to the Laws of Duplicate Bridge. If it is not then the organiser of the tournament should make this quite clear. The expectation [and actuality] are the opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycroft Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 Wait, what? both weak 2s on AKQxx (or QTxxx, for that matter) and 1NT-with-a-singleton may, or may not, be psychics. Depends on the system - a psychic call is a deliberate and gross deviation *from system*. Now having said that (which is where I was implying with my previous post), they are perfectly entitled to say that agreements to open weak 2s on fewer-than-6-card suits and NT-with-a-singleton are Special Partnership Understandings (if ability to designate that has been delegated to the clubs by the NBO), and that those SPUs are not allowed (or allowed once-a-night, say). Which is the problem *I* have with the "psychic-ban" people - they then choose to designate bids that are gross deviations from *their* system as psychics - whether or not they are in the bidder's system. With the new Laws, they can regulate as desired, without using the P-word; and then they can allow actual psychics just like the Laws require. I may not *like* that decision by the Laws-makers, but since it's there, please have the courtesy of doing what you want to do within the Laws, rather than against them. Edit-to-add: So, Zelandakh - are you allowed to ask after the auction goes 2♥ to you whether they've used their psych for the night yet? If not, does that not put the bidding side under an advantage that if they *have* used their psych for the night, they know their system will not be "deviated" from, and their opponents do not? We used to play a Crazy Bridge game at end of term. One of the additions was a "stop chip", which could be thrown in by either of the pair at any time to stop the auction with three passes immediately - once a night (Don't splinter if they still have it...) But, of course, you had to declare whether you still had your side's stop chip or not. And, of course, it didn't award Masterpoints (as that was by no means the least of our violations of the Laws of Bridge!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMB1 Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 Wait, what? both weak 2s on AKQxx (or QTxxx, for that matter) and 1NT-with-a-singleton may, or may not, be psychics. Depends on the system - a psychic call is a deliberate and gross deviation *from system*. I assumed (probably rashly) that in this regulatory environment, weak twos on 5 card suits and NT openers on singletons were not permitted (special) partnership agreements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycroft Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 I assumed (probably rashly) that in this regulatory environment, weak twos on 5 card suits and NT openers on singletons were not permitted (special) partnership agreements.That should be a good assumption, but I bet if it were accurate, they wouldn't be playing these kind of "one psych a night" games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 I assumed (probably rashly) that in this regulatory environment, weak twos on 5 card suits and NT openers on singletons were not permitted (special) partnership agreements.This is (or technically was but is still intepreted to be current) correct Robin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 This is (or technically was but is still intepreted to be current) correct Robin.Remind me not to take my 4 card weak twos to Germany :D I hate to think what they do to you for those if 5 is an inadmissible agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycroft Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 This is (or technically was but is still intepreted to be current) correct Robin.Okay, well that's different. Under those regs, it's reasonable for people *not to do it if they're told they can't*. And frankly, under those regs, it's not a psychic, it's an "I'm told I can't do this, but it's the right call anyway, so to hell with the regulations". Of course, they can make the regulation of these particular SPUs however they like, including "your weak 2s promise 6 cards. Your NTs openers must be 4432, 4333, or 5332. <other regulations>. You may still play these agreements, or any other SPUs you may be playing, even if you, no more than once a session, violate any one of them by one card." In which case, everyone's well within their regulations. And I still would want to know when they opened 1NT in round 7 if they'd used their "psych" or not... I've probably opened 1NT-with-a-singleton 3 or 4 times in the last 4 years. I wonder what would happen if I just happened to pick up two 4=4=(14)-15-17s-with-a-stiff-K in one night to make it 5 or 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluejak Posted October 6, 2011 Report Share Posted October 6, 2011 I think you have an agreement with partner as to whether his call could be psychic dependent on whether he has already psyched so I think this needs disclosing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.