manudude03 Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 [hv=pc=n&e=sakhaq7532dkq6ck5]133|100[/hv] What's your plan with this collection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 Apply the strong opening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 I would open 2C and rebid 2H and consider it a non problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 Would open 1♥, this hand has very poor trick taking potential opposite a complete bust and we tend to respond fairly light anyway. Complicated by playing a 2-way 2♥ rebid over 2♣-2♦ not sure I want to bid 2♣-2♦-2♥-2♠-3♥ on an AQ7xxx, second choice 2♣-2♦-2N (22-23 for us). If not playing Kokish or similar, and playing normal responses to 1-bids, I'm happier opening 2♣ and rebidding 2♥ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 If you play kokish just bid 2C-2D-2H-2S-3N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbforster Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 What about 1♥-something-3N? Isnt that ~20ish semibalanced with a 6 card major? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 What about 1♥-something-3N? Isnt that ~20ish semibalanced with a 6 card major?Only if "something" is 1NT (F or SF). I might choose that path if I could be guaranteed pard would respond at all, and likely 1NT. Otherwise, I think the rebids would all suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbforster Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 Only if "something" is 1NT (F or SF). I might choose that path if I could be guaranteed pard would respond at all, and likely 1NT. Otherwise, I think the rebids would all suck.Would it be different after 1♥-1♠? Certainly P, 1♠,1N, and 2♥ are the only likely responses. I guess the real question is how often do you miss game opposite pass, vs getting too high otherwise. Playing a 2♥ double negative response to a strong 2♣ at least you could pass that and stay low if you catch partner with a bust (which argues for 2♣. Playing out of your hand you do have 5 losers or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 Would it be different after 1♥-1♠? It would be different for me; at the risk of going off-track, since 2C seems to be right: 1H-1S3N= 1-6-3-3. Yes, the 6th heart; but pretty much solid hearts and primes in the minors. (X AKQXXX AXX KXX) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 If you play kokish just bid 2C-2D-2H-2S-3N I play this as 26-27 balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 I play this as 26-27 balanced. Cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 I play this as 26-27 balanced. In my partnership with Gib we open that 3N, to free up 2C 2D 2H 2S 3N as 6322 with 6 hearts and scattered values. It also stops retarded gambling 3N openers on xx xx xx AKQxxxx which is nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 If you play kokish just bid 2C-2D-2H-2S-3NAs the other poster we play G3N and this sequence as huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VM1973 Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 I always open 2♣ when I have more quick tricks than losers. This hand certainly qualifies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 I always open 2♣ when I have more quick tricks than losers. This hand certainly qualifies.AK AK Ax xxxxxxx? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 I always open 2♣ when I have more quick tricks than losers. This hand certainly qualifies.I think I understand what you mean (on non extreme distributions), but otherwise is x, AKxxx, void, AKxxxxx really a 2♣ opener, if so I hope you enjoy trying to bid it when the auction comes back at 5♦. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semeai Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 I always open 2♣ when I have more quick tricks than losers. This hand certainly qualifies.AK AK Ax xxxxxxx? That's obviously a cheap shot. Isn't AK xx Ax AKxxxxx bad enough? That said, counting quick tricks and losers seems like something nice to do when in doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 That's obviously a cheap shot. Isn't AK xx Ax AKxxxxx bad enough? Are you implying that this is not a 2C opener? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 I don't get why people hate opening 2C so much. If you won't open 2C with a 1 suited hand that has 9 and a half tricks in its own hand and 5 quick tricks then I just don't get it. If partner drives to slam is that going to be bad? If we end up in game will that be bad? How on earth are you going to show such a great hand if you open 1C. Everyone seems to think it is super expert to not open 2C these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 That's obviously a cheap shot. Isn't AK xx Ax AKxxxxx bad enough? That said, counting quick tricks and losers seems like something nice to do when in doubt. Perhaps the lesson is the avoid the use of 'always' in a forum post. Always :) I'd open your hand 2♣ too. Unless you play Sabine's gadget, good luck to you after 1♣ - 1♠.... Cyberyeti's 2 suiter is a much more compelling example of why VM's 'rule' is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 By overwhelming majority, we open OP hand 2C planning to rebid 2H if we can. Most methods can deal reasonably well with with that, even if partner or the opponents mess us up. With Semeai's example, the overwhelming majority would open 2C but not have confidence that we could handle the follow-ups. It is close enough to our "rules", and we would have a worse time following up after a 1C start. Neither of the two hands would be what I would use in a debate about whether it is "expert" to avoid opening 2C these days. That discussion might best be reserved for handling big two-suiters, but would be confused also by the fact that some players have better toys to handle 2-suiters (within or out of the 2C structure). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semeai Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 Are you implying that this is not a 2C opener? I'd open the OP hand 2C certainly, but thought not for that one. I guess the auction will be better after 2C-2D;3C than after 1C. Perhaps the lesson is the avoid the use of 'always' in a forum post. Always :) I'd open your hand 2♣ too. Unless you play Sabine's gadget, good luck to you after 1♣ - 1♠.... Cyberyeti's 2 suiter is a much more compelling example of why VM's 'rule' is wrong. Yes, but 2-suiters are a known exception. I guess it just comes down to misuse of the word always. :) If my suggested hand should in fact be opened 2C opener, then I'm fairly convinced of the 'rule' with obvious exceptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 I am not even opening 2C on the AK xx Ax AKxxxxx hand to avoid a bad rebid. The hand is worth 9 and a half tricks. To me I like opening 2C with that strong of a hand in order to be able to show a hand that strong. Even with methods after a 1C opener and a response to show a game forcing one suiter, you are still showing a hand weaker than you have being limited by your failure to open 2C. For slam purposes, that is probably bad. The fact that it is good for rebid reasons also is just gravy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VM1973 Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 AK AK Ax xxxxxxx?2♣. WTP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VM1973 Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 I think I understand what you mean (on non extreme distributions), but otherwise is x, AKxxx, void, AKxxxxx really a 2♣ opener, if so I hope you enjoy trying to bid it when the auction comes back at 5♦.I hate it when my partner opens 5♦ and I have a 2♣ opener. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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