jillybean Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 Does 3♠ so extra's or simply preference? 1♥:1♠2♣:2N3♠ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 Responder has enough to invite, but not demand game; so, he could easily have five spades on this auction. 2D would have committed to game. So, Opener shows enough values to accept game and is showing 3 spades enroute. The Pattern will be 3-5-1-4 (maybe 3-5-0-5). Too late for simply preference because: Opener does not know, for sure, that responder does have 5 spades, so he cannot bypass 3NT and jump to 4S. The 3S bid has a range starting at about 13, but could be just below jump-shift. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel_k Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 For me it shows extras because I would raise to 2♠ if minimum 3514. But it is forcing regardless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted September 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 :rolleyes: For me it shows extras because I would raise to 2♠ if minimum 3514. But it is forcing regardless.Thanks, I think this is a key point here. Is the corollary to this that we must always raise with a minimum hand (added) and 3514? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel_k Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 :rolleyes: Thanks, I think this is a key point here. Is the corollary to this that we must always raise with 3514?With extra values, e.g. Qxx x AKJxx AJxx I would bid 2♣ over 1♠ then 2♠ if partner gives preference to 2♥. The hand is too good to just raise immediately to 2♠ but I would still like to stop low if partner is minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 Extras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted September 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 Thanks, I think this is a key point here. Is the corollary to this that we must always raise with a minimum hand (added) and 3514? With extra values, e.g. Qxx x AKJxx AJxx I would bid 2♣ over 1♠ then 2♠ if partner gives preference to 2♥. The hand is too good to just raise immediately to 2♠ but I would still like to stop low if partner is minimum.Agree. I know some players have a method to determine if 2♠ was made on a 3 or 4 card raise. Is this important, if so what method do you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 Does 3♠ so extra's or simply preference? 1♥:1♠2♣:2N3♠ 1) FOR STARTERS any bid over 2nt I play as gf never a pref. in fact pard cannot pref.2) you can debate if 3s=Hx or xxx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 I thought it showed a 'preference' to spades, i.e. 3 spades. Of course it implies that opener wants to go higher so it's an acceptance of the invitation of 2NT so it should be forcing. after: 1x-1M2M-2NT asks opener how he supported, you can choose the set of responses you want, I usually play: 3♣ 3-card support with a singleton3♦ 4-card support with a singleton3♥ 3 no sing3♠ 4 no sing3NT 4333 with 4-card support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 Extras for the reasons Nigel explained in his first post. :rolleyes: Thanks, I think this is a key point here. Is the corollary to this that we must always raise with a minimum hand (added) and 3514? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 What you do with 3154 doesn't relly matter jilly, 3♠ is Game Forcing because otherwise you are on silly land on a 4-3 fit too often. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 With extra values, e.g. Qxx x AKJxx AJxx I would bid 2♣ over 1♠ then 2♠ if partner gives preference to 2♥. The hand is too good to just raise immediately to 2♠ but I would still like to stop low if partner is minimum.Sorry... are your red suits flipped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 There are quite a few schemes around after 1m - 1M - 2M. First of all the simplest a la Acol is to simply play that 2NT is an invite with a 4 card suit which Opener can correct to 3M with a min and 4 card support. Similarly for 3NT. The most common scheme is 3434, that is that if Responder bids the next step (some play always 2NT instead) the bids are ordered 3 + min; 4 + min; 3 + extras; 4 + extras. There are also more complicated version too where Opener can show a shortage along the way. Hanoi's method is one variety of this but there are also others. There was also a thread (at least one) about this subject not so long ago which might be worth looking up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted September 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 There was also a thread (at least one) about this subject not so long ago which might be worth looking up.Can anyone provide the link to it, please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Does 3♠ so extra's or simply preference? 1♥:1♠2♣:2N The normal meanings of the bids here are: 3♣: Minimum 5 - 5 (doesn't want to play 2NT)3♦: GF, patterning out3♥: GF, as a minimum 6 - 4 hand would rebid 2♥3♠: GF, patterning out3NT: To play Except 3♣, all bids are geared towards finding the best game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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