1C-1N in precision

[EthanMac]

My partner and I have been playing Precision lately and the structure we initially agreed upon defined 1C - 1N as 8-10 bal, which we then changed to 9-10 bal. 1C - 2N meant 11-13 bal or 16+ bal. Unfortunately, we missed a few slams because of the space-consuming nature of the 2N bid, so we want to respond 1N with all 9-13 balanced hands without a 5 card major. Does anyone else do this, and what structure do you use over 1N? How do you define 1C - 2N?

 

Thanks

[TylerE]

Look into transfer responses. Make things even easier. E.g. 1C-1S[balanced hand]-1NT relay- now can use relays as fancy as you want to determine shape, strength, honor placement etc.

[guido]

Super-Precision used an 8-13 1NT response. They used (basically):

2C: size asking transfer Stayman (2D=H 8-10, etc.)

Suit: Support asking, 5 step: min no support; min support; max no support; max support; max 4-card support.

[brian_m]

My partner and I have been playing Precision lately and the structure we initially agreed upon defined 1C - 1N as 8-10 bal, which we then changed to 9-10 bal. 1C - 2N meant 11-13 bal or 16+ bal. Unfortunately, we missed a few slams because of the space-consuming nature of the 2N bid, so we want to respond 1N with all 9-13 balanced hands without a 5 card major. Does anyone else do this, and what structure do you use over 1N? How do you define 1C - 2N?

 

Thanks

 

I echo the response about transfer positives. There's no reason not to play your balanced positive as open-ended provided you have some kind of range inquiry. In my two strong club partnerships we use 1NT as the control ask (beta) and 2C as asking both for range and for 4 card majors. Our 2NT response is a non-touching 5-5 positive (2S covers the touching positives, 2H is a three suited positive).

[Hanoi5]

1♣-2N = 14+ Balanced 4333 or 4432

 

Over 1♣-1N-2♣ is transfer stayman.

 

From Precision Today by Berkowitz and Manley, great book.

[PrecisionL]

1♣-2N = 14+ Balanced 4333 or 4432

 

Over 1♣-1N-2♣ is transfer stayman.

 

From Precision Today by Berkowitz and Manley, great book.

 

Yes, I have been using this structure for years and found it to be simple and useful. Use the acceptance of the transfer as a Beta Ask and you will find out at the 3-level if you have enough controls for slam. A raise to 5M after the Beta Reply asks if anything extra (Q?).

 

However, one option is to use 1♣ - 2♦ as the 8-10 balanced thus making 1NT reply 11-14 (too many 14 hcp hands do NOT make slam).

 

Another option is to use 1♣ - 2♣ as ♣ or 8-10 balanced. 2♦ asks and 2M or 2NT shows the balanced hand.

[the_clown]

I play 1♣-1NT 8+ balanced unlimited. After that 2♣ is a Relay and opener can find out responder's shape and strenght below 3nt. Even without playing relais I think playing 1NT as 8+ is superior as you have all the space in the world for opener and responder to limit their hands. The principle of fast arrival is very helpful. 1clubs-2NT is 4441 Hand with 8+ points, 3Clubs is 4414 etc

[Fluffy]

I play viking club, (or something that originally was that) similar to guido and the_clown, 1NT shows 9-14 in my case, with 2♣ response as range asking stayman, then partner bids 2♦ with the least likelly holding (12-14), and answers stayman with 9-11 (2NT being no minor and 3m being 5332 with 5m), except with 3343 12-14 where he answers 3NT

 

 

after 1♣-1NT-2♣-2♦, now 2♥ is restayman, but partner's answers are codified (2♠ = 4♠ and mayve 4♥ also, 2NT= 4♥, 3♣=5♣, 3♦=5♦, 3♥=3334, 3♠= 2344, 3NT= 3244)

[Trinidad]

Look into transfer responses. Make things even easier. E.g. 1C-1S[balanced hand]-1NT relay- now can use relays as fancy as you want to determine shape, strength, honor placement etc.

Better yet, put the balanced hands in the 1♥ response. And you can put the three suiters in there too.

 

You can play a simple system along the lines of 2/1 GF when responder wants to show a major:

1♠ = 5+ hearts

1NT = 5+ spades

The bidding continues along the lines of 2/1 GF as if responder opened 1♠ or 1♥. The 1NT bid that is needed in 2/1 GF for the hands that can't force to game is not needed since the auction is already GF. So:

1♣-1♠ (♥);

1NT Spades

2♣♦ Natural

2♥ found a fit, what ever you like: TAB, etc.

 

Rik

[PrecisionL]

Yes, starting the auction at 2NT is known to be a slam killer, especially for minor suits even playing Standard or 2/1 G.F., or Precision with a 2NT response showing 14+.

 

Put the balanced 11+ hands into the 1♥ response to a strong 1♣ opener:

 

1♥ = (a) 5+♠, or (b) Balanced 11+.

 

1♠ is the follow-on and responder rebids 1NT if balanced and 11+ and other bids show 5+♥ or a second suit, 2NT rebid would be 5332.

 

Over 1NT, 2♣ by opener is Transfer Stayman. You can invent your own follow-ons to show 11-14 or maybe 2NT or higher showing 15+ hcp.

[akhare]

While you are at it, why not switch the 1♠ / 1N responses?

 

You can then play:

 

1♣ - 1♠ - 1N:

 

2C: Max balanced

2D: Min bal, Transfer to H

2H: Min bal, Transfer to S

2S+: Min bal, blah

 

Over 1♣ - 1N (spades), you can pretty much use your old responses (with some bid for opener to presumably show the bal min hand).

 

Of course, one can get much more creative than that, but this is a good rudimendary starting point.

[EthanMac]

Thanks for your replies. What is a good set of follow-ups to a 1NT response showing a 9+ Bal hand? Eventually, we're going to use transfers here but for now we're trying to stay as natural as possible with our 1♣ responses.

[Nirmalya]

I play 1♣-1NT 8+ balanced unlimited. After that 2♣ is a Relay and opener can find out responder's shape and strenght below 3nt. Even without playing relais I think playing 1NT as 8+ is superior as you have all the space in the world for opener and responder to limit their hands. The principle of fast arrival is very helpful. 1clubs-2NT is 4441 Hand with 8+ points, 3Clubs is 4414 etc

Hello!

Would you please elaborate the continuations? I also play 1C-1NT as 8+ but upto 15 only, and we have a sequence to find out the exact shape and the HCP range before 3NT. We can exchange the methods to see if some more improvement can be built over the present method.

 

One improvement area is to know both strength and the controls below 3NT. For example, 11-13 HCP with 3 Controls (AK points) and 11-13 HCP with 5 controls are so much different in the slam context!

[keylime]

Larry and I play 1C-2D as 8 to a bad 11, any balanced hand, including five card majors. We can xfer into them via a 2NT ask.

 

That allows a good 11 to 14 to be bid via 1C-1H-1S-1NT. With 15+, that hand might come up once a year, and that's if you're playing a lot.

[nige1]

You can accommodate a wide range by using a 2♣ point-count relay.

You may also consider restricting the shapes to (4333) and (4432) -- and maybe the occasional (4441) -- and possibly 33(52) and (32)(53) with a poor 5 card minor.

1♣ - 1N -

2♣ - ??

• 2♦ = 8-9
• 2♥ = 10-11
• 2♠ = 12-13
• 2N = 14-15
• and so on

Then opener continues ...

• Relay = Art Baron for suit upwards.
• Suit = Nat 5+ cards
• Notrump jump = Nat.
• Suit jump = Art Keycard, setting bid suit.

Notrump bids usually show the relay suit e.g.

1♣ - 1N = Nat 8+

2♣ - 2♦ = Art 8-9 HCP

2♥ - 2N = Art 4 ♥.

.....