Mexican 2D

[antonylee]

Hi,

I've recently started looking around Mexican 2♦ (trying to find ideas to rearrange my NT structure should I switch to 11-13-NT, e.g. 11-13=1N, 14-16=1m..1N, 17-19=2♦) (of course I could switch to prepared 1m openings but that's not the point here).

It seems that most response systems use some artificial 2♥&2♠ to ensure right-siding of the contract, but is that really optimal? What about something simpler such as

2M, 2N = to play [or possibly: 2N = some minor(s) oriented scramble / minor(s) strong hand]

3♣ = puppet

3♦♥ = invitational transfer

3♠ = transfer to 3N

 

True, we wrong-side 2M and 2N but assuming we're in a field where most people play standard, their auction is likely going to be:

- in the 2M case: 1m-1M-2N-P/3M/some sort of signoff; so they've wrong-sided too and they're one level higher;

- in the 2N case: 1m-P ??? and now the opponents are in.

And, much more importantly, we get to play in 2♥, which more artificial schemes do not seem to allow (I believe).

 

Is the right-siding issue really more important than the ability of signing off in 2♥?

[blackshoe]

What hand types are included in the 2♦ opening?

 

As I first learned this convention, 2♦ was one of:

 

1. Balanced 21-22 HCP with 7 controls (and hands might be adjusted upwards or downwards based on the number of controls).

2. Unbalanced GF with primary diamonds (might have a second 4+ card suit).

3. Unbalanced GF, three suited, unspecified singleton.

4. Rarely, Balanced 27-28 HCP with 10 controls.

 

The responses were simple:

 

2♥: 0-4 HCP

2♠: 5-10 HCP (FG)

2NT: 11+ HCP (slam is probable).

 

Opener would then show his hand type.

 

The latest version, 2♦ does not include the three suiters. Responses are based on the assumption that open will have the first hand type (a bit more than a 75% chance), and attempt to "right side" the contract as often as possible. So the responses are a bit more complicated:

 

Pass: a yarborough with a long diamond suit.

2H: 0-9 HCP, no slam interest opposite 21-22 balanced, < 4 hearts

2S: 10+ HCP, 3+ controls (usually), slam interest

2NT: transfer, 0-3 HCP, 6+ clubs, no 4 card major, or possibly a major two suiter

3C: special Stayman, at least 4-4 in the majors and only game interest.

3D: transfer, 0-9 HCP, exactly 5 hearts, < 4 spades.

3H: transfer, 0-3 HCP, 5+ spades, < 4 hearts, signoff

3S: balanced game only hand, exactly 4 hearts, < 4 spades

3NT: at least 5-5 in the majors, game interest only

4C: 6+ hearts, to play in 4 hearts

4D: 6+ spades, to play in 4 spades

[antonylee]

A priori I only need strong balanced right now, though squeezing in some extra hand types is always welcome.

[Free]

It depends on what you want. Playing 2M/NT as natural signoff basically means you want to use your regular 2NT structure for 3♣+ responses. Note that you've lost some bidding space already by not opening 1m, so partner will have a lot less information. That's why it seems sensible to try and get as many hands as possible across.

 

The way L-V play:

- they are still able to signoff in 2♠ (and rightside this btw)

- they can rightside 2NT

- they can describe many hand types

- they can signoff in 3♣ (and rightside ♣ for stronger hands)

- they can show minor 2-suiters below 3NT

- ...

The only thing you gain by playing 2M/NT natural NF is that you are able to play 2♥ while they have to play 3♥. Compared to all the good and more frequent stuff you lose, it's a really poor idea imo.

[whereagles]

If I were to play this, I would definitely try and profit from the possibility to stop in 2M.

 

Pass = some diamonds and weakish.

2M = stop, but opener can raise with a super-accept type of hand.

2NT = to play.

3C = usual puppet or muppet stayman.

3D/H = GF transfer. Opener can bid 3NT with a doubleton, so accepting shows a fit and slam ambition. Super-accepting shows a discouraging hand.

3S = whatever you normally play over a 2NT opener.

[antonylee]

The only thing you gain by playing 2M/NT natural NF is that you are able to play 2♥ while they have to play 3♥. Compared to all the good and more frequent stuff you lose, it's a really poor idea imo.

Sure, looks convincing to me.

[mike777]

Hi,

I've recently started looking around Mexican 2♦ (trying to find ideas to rearrange my NT structure should I switch to 11-13-NT, e.g. 11-13=1N, 14-16=1m..1N, 17-19=2♦) (of course I could switch to prepared 1m openings but that's not the point here).

It seems that most response systems use some artificial 2♥&2♠ to ensure right-siding of the contract, but is that really optimal? What about something simpler such as

2M, 2N = to play [or possibly: 2N = some minor(s) oriented scramble / minor(s) strong hand]

3♣ = puppet

3♦♥ = invitational transfer

3♠ = transfer to 3N

 

True, we wrong-side 2M and 2N but assuming we're in a field where most people play standard, their auction is likely going to be:

- in the 2M case: 1m-1M-2N-P/3M/some sort of signoff; so they've wrong-sided too and they're one level higher;

- in the 2N case: 1m-P ??? and now the opponents are in.

And, much more importantly, we get to play in 2♥, which more artificial schemes do not seem to allow (I believe).

 

Is the right-siding issue really more important than the ability of signing off in 2♥?

 

 

I have played mexican 2d(17/18-19 bal for many years.

 

You can do a forum search for a more complete response system here in the forums but for starters

 

95% of the time your auctions will start 2d=2s(forcing 2nt)=2nt(forced) then have a nt auction.

 

 

2d=2h=tfr to spades.

 

 

if you have any detailed questions feel free to ask.

 

 

Again the main reason we play this is to put many 14+ hands into a nt auction and make our lite, wideranging other one level bids more accurate.

 

1nt=14-16 offshape often

2d=17-19

or 18-19 and 1bid and then 2nt=17.

[antonylee]

1nt=14-16 offshape often

2d=17-19

or 18-19 and 1bid and then 2nt=17.

I thought the 2NT rebid would rather be freed for some other awkward strong hand, e.g. 6m3M? Or some other usefule conventional use?

[mike777]

I thought the 2NT rebid would rather be freed for some other awkward strong hand, e.g. 6m3M? Or some other usefule conventional use?

 

 

IN my example if 17-19 sure...

 

I mostly play it as 17 and natural and shorten mexican to 18-19 but sure.