Defining Doubles - II

[Phil]

The 2nd in the series.

 

(1x) - pass - (1N) - pass

pass - double

[Hanoi5]

I like to play penalty of X. I also like the option of changing the meaning based on whether the opening was in a Major or a minor, if I double 1NT when they don't have the Majors then it's take-out and if they opened in a Major is penalty of that Major (great for exposing a psych). Anyway 1M-1NT-Pa is not a typical sequence as the 1NT is usually forcing.

[Fluffy]

I play as take out given that I play 95% of my f2f hands in match points where it makes a lot more sense this way IMO. But I think 2 way is playable

[Free]

Takeout, usually with tolerance for opener's suit.

[mikeh]

It helps to know if we play a gadget. I generally play that a balancing 2♣, over a dying 1N response, is takeout of opener's suit (whatever it may have been) and thus don't need a takeout double here. That frees it up for the penalty, showing length and strength in opener's suit.

[andy_h]

I love 2-way here.

[aguahombre]

Takeout, usually with tolerance for opener's suit.

Workable if 1m was the opening bid, since 4X1 with a stiff in the other minor would have been an ugly takeout on the first round. Hanoi5 alluded to this, also. Maybe workable after 1M was opened, if the doubler has specifically short clubs, perhaps (3-4)-4-2 and partner knows that.

 

Eliminate all hands which should have acted directly, and what is the likelihood that takeout is more frequently useful than penalty? I don't know.

 

2C takeout of dying NT was popular a long time ago, and still might be used by many people. We abandoned it because it is so rare we want to act now with takeout shape, shortness in opener's suit, and didn't want to act the first time; but it is not as rare that we have 6 clubs over opener's club opening.

Edited September 13, 2011 by aguahombre

[whereagles]

Mike Lawrence's balancing book says you can play it two-way because pard will very often know what you mean by looking at his own hand.

[Phil]

One of the treatments / conventions on my "don't play list" is "2♣ takeout over a dead NT". I've never understood what this means.

 

In the auction presented, its clear enough that 2♣ is 'takeout of 'x''. However, in other other dead NT auctions, its less clear:

 

1♦ - pass - 1♥ - pass

1N - pass - pass - 2♣

 

Am I showing, 3, 4 or 5 clubs here?

 

I much prefer to play DONT bids over dead NT's. It seems we are much better placed to find our best fit.

[gnasher]

I like to play it as flawed takeout. The flaw might be lack of shape, or the wrong shape.

 

Likewise, I like to play a delayed 2♣ overcall as a flawed overcall. The flaw is usually an inadequate suit.

[whereagles]

We could go on and define stuff after stuff after stuff... but I would say don't sweat it: reality is more immaginative than theory.

[JLOGIC]

penalty