What is the correct response?

[richrf]

Hi all,

 

This is my second question on the forum. :)

 

Opener bids 1♠

 

Responder holds: ♠KQxx ♥QJ ♣KJxxxx ♦10

 

Thanks for the advice.

 

Rich

[aguahombre]

If 2/1 commits us to game, I would prefer to show the six card club suit rather than the stiff diamond.

 

Just my opinion; will let others pronounce what is "correct".

[TWO4BRIDGE]

4♦!

[ggwhiz]

I prefer 2nt no doubt followed by 4♠ but know that is a minority view.

 

Change the ♥ to Ax or Kx and 4♦ becomes more attractive.

[aguahombre]

I prefer 2nt no doubt followed by 4♠ but know that is a minority view.

I think you must have some different follow-ups to J2N which make that bid attractive in your partnerships. Just an observation. We often bad-mouth someone's choices without understanding the context they are working within.

 

However, in general, it would seem that the hand which is going to come down in dummy should be the one which is known..as opposed to the opponents knowing more about declarer's hand than they need to; bringing us back to a choice between the suit and the splinter.

Edited September 1, 2011 by aguahombre

[ggwhiz]

I think you must have some different follow-ups to J2N which make that bid attractive in your partnerships.

 

Very true. We have minimum control agreements for splinters that this doesn't fit.

 

What do you do after a splinter when pard bids 4 hearts? OK, 4 spades(maybe) pard continues with something..... Seems like we have mapped the defence here too.

 

We need a clearcut (mandatory) cue and not 1st OR 2nd or we don't splinter. Easy to forget and every time we do it's a bottom.

 

Interesting hand Rich cause I'm certainly not on firm ground.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

4D.

 

If the hand fits your splinter agreement, make the splinter.

 

Standard agreement set seems to be

 

#1 at least 4 card support

#2 12-15 HCP

 

how far away is this from the given hand.

 

Since we talk about a 4D instead of a 4H splinter, opener has a bid av.

to show / deny SI, which means that the splinter definition can be wider.

........................................................................

An alternative option is to bid a 3D mini splinter.

A minisplinter eiter showes a 8 looser hand or a hand with 6 or less loosers.

 

I never played mini splinters, but as far as can make it out, minisplinter

are as good / as useless as any other agreement for 3D - of course I am just

talking about the agreements I know.

With kind regards

Marlowe

[the hog]

2C for me. I thought of a splinter of course, but the Cs are too much of a source of tricks to by pass them.

2NT is not for me unless I have an ultra whizz bang responding system to that and I don't as i do not play 2NT Jacoby.

[Free]

I don't have a preference between 2♣ and 4♦. The biggest drawback of the splinter is that you won't know if partner has some ♣ support, so perhaps 2♣ is slightly better.

[whereagles]

Given the bad hcp placement in hearts, I think a splinter is a better representation of the hand than a 2/1, so I bid that.

[aguahombre]

Given the bad hcp placement in hearts, I think a splinter is a better representation of the hand than a 2/1, so I bid that.

I don't understand the reasoning. If you have crud in one rounded suit, and a lengthy trick source in the other, how does that favor splintering rather than bidding the suit you have length in? Just asking.

[mikeh]

Minor Quibble......please list the suits in the 'normal' sequence, with clubs last, if not using a hand diagram. Not a big deal, but my initial reaction was that we were 4=2=6=1.

 

As for the problem, I think that 2♣ is the correct bid, simply because we have a potential source of tricks, and we'd like partner to upgrade hands containing club honours, which he will do if we show the suit.

 

I don't know about SAYC, and don't know what method you are playing, but I intend to bid clubs and then, if partner rebids spades, to splinter in diamonds....which really focuses on his hearts and club fit. If he dosen't rebid 2♠, I will show my spade support cheaply and see what happens (I am assuming that my spade support will be forcing, as it would be were we playing, for example, 2/1 gf).

 

I don't splinter...I don't like concealing 6 card suits. I certainly don't use J2N, no matter what my response structure is...this doesn't feel like a hand on which to assume captaincy this early.

[wyman]

A case can be made for a game-forcing and natural 2C or for a 4D splinter. I'll bid 2C since after this (and after I support spades next, partner will be better suited to evaluate our prospects for slam, if he has such a hand. Admittedly, I'd like to show him the 4th trump right now (which a splinter would accomplish), but we can't have it all, I suppose.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Let's review what "you" don't like about the 4♦! splinter:

1) Shows an immediate "minimum" GF raise with at least 4 cards but not a powerhouse ( with a stronger hand I would Jac2NT even with shortness ).

2) A stiff so Opener can evaluate wastage;

3) 8 cards ( maybe 7 ) in the rounded suits with "stuff" in them for the GF raise.

 

If Partner next cuebids 4♥ ( over 4♦ ), that's all I need to hear -- I'm going 4NT-RKC .

[Free]

If Partner next cuebids 4♥ ( over 4♦ ), that's all I need to hear -- I'm going 4NT-RKC .

4♥ may be last train without a ♥ cue, another reason not to splinter. :)

[TWO4BRIDGE]

OK... how about an Upper Bergen ( limit ) Raise w/4+cards ?

1S - 3D!

[mikeh]

OK... how about an Upper Bergen ( limit ) Raise w/4+cards ?

1S - 3D!

Huh? First you want to splinter as a prelude to keycard if he squeaks over the splinter, and now you want to merely invite game? I understand that you presumably intend to raise a signoff to game, but don't you think that these views are a tad inconsistent?

[mike777]

Hi all,

 

This is my second question on the forum. :)

 

Opener bids 1♠

 

Responder holds: ♠KQxx ♥QJ ♣KJxxxx ♦10

 

Thanks for the advice.

 

Rich

 

Welcome to the forums, great question.

 

 

ON going debate does one set trumps and show 4 card support and if so how first or show a possible source of tricks with 2c.

 

I prefer to show a 4 card raise now. I can live with 2nt(bergen) my first choice or splinter.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Huh? First you want to splinter as a prelude to keycard if he squeaks over the splinter, and now you want to merely invite game? I understand that you presumably intend to raise a signoff to game, but don't you think that these views are a tad inconsistent?

 

I was just showing another 4 card raise option.

 

I'm always leery of the "source of tricks" option ( even though it is GF ) because I can never prove to partner later that I have 4 card support.

Then there is the "interference" factor:

1S - ( p ) - 2C! - ( 3D )

p - ( 5D ) - ??

 

As noted, 4D! is my first choice.

[Phil]

Interesting - if my clubs were a lot stronger I'd opt for 2N. If my clubs were a lot weaker, I'd choose the splinter.

 

Since club support looks like pretty good news for this had, I'll bid 2♣.

[Vampyr]

Splinters take up a lot of room, so I prefer to define them very strictly. I like to play that a splinter shows 3 or 4 controls (K=1, A=2) and few if any minor honours.

 

This hand has only 2 controls, and also has a lot more HCP on the side than a minimum splinter in my style. Splinters are useful in finding thin, well-fitting slams -- queens and jacks in the side suits are likely to be irrelevant.

 

Anyway, this looks like a good hand for 2/1 GF, because you can show your clubs and agree spades at a low level. I think that this is the best approach.

[richrf]

Hi everyone,

 

Thanks for all of the comments so far. I have learned a lot from the comments. I didn't even know about splinters before this discussion! Knowing about splinters, I can see that there are some options which I should consider in the future ... assuming my partner also plays splinters. I will also have to read up on the 2NT option.

 

Thanks again, and I appreciate any further comments.

 

Rich

 

P.S. I will remember in the future to put the hand in standard sequence, but I am sort of a novice so I may slip up now and then. Please accept my apologies if I make any mistakes.

[semeai]

Hi everyone,

 

Thanks for all of the comments so far. I have learned a lot from the comments. I didn't even know about splinters before this discussion! Knowing about splinters, I can see that there are some options which I should consider in the future ... assuming my partner also plays splinters. I will also have to read up on the 2NT option.

 

Thanks again, and I appreciate any further comments.

 

Rich

 

P.S. I will remember in the future to put the hand in standard sequence, but I am sort of a novice so I may slip up now and then. Please accept my apologies if I make any mistakes.

 

To help your searches: The 2NT bid is called Jacoby 2NT and, if agreed that you're using this convention (many online will without comment, and it is part of the SAYC system most play), it shows a game forcing raise over a 1 of a major opening. There are specific responses that are standard that I'll leave you to find if/when you look up the convention.

 

If you play neither splinters nor Jacoby 2NT, that's fine and you can just bid 2C and then raise spades on this hand. As we've seen many prefer this with this hand even playing those conventions because the club suit is notable in addition to the support.

[jdeegan]

:P 2♣ for me. Bidding game in spades is for sure. Slam is possible, but I need to elicit pard's opinion and find out more about what he has. My hand is heaven or hell. It is very soft but might have a ton of playing tricks opposite the right holding. Pard needs controls and either a ♥ suit or a ♣ fit.

Axxxx

Kxxx

Axx

A

is only a king better than a min, but enough for a near laydown six. If it comes up, I might even be able to splinter later.

 

You presented a very interesting hand. IMO and those of its inventors a 4♦ splinter should be what is called a 'picture' bid. Like Goldilocks' porridge it's not too weak and not too strong, and it's major feature is it's singleton. Most of the time it is 4-4-4-1 shape, but it can be 5-4-3-1 if the 5 bagger is weak. You probably shouldn't do it with a void or less than four trumps because you are telling pard to discount any cards in the splinter suit other than the ace.

The Jacoby 2NT is an excellent convention which I had a hand in helping Jake invent. It normally shows 4 trumps after a major suit opening, and it forces to game and is unlimited on the upside. There are a myriad of very good bidding systems you can use to continue after the 2NT bid. I recommend you and your regular partners start with something simple. The simplest good system is as follows over, say, 1♠-Pass-2NT-Pass-???:

4♠ shows a weak opener with no singleton or void

3 ♣, ♦, or ♥ shows a singleton or void in that suit

3♠ shows no singleton or void and at least a King better than a minimum

4 ♣, ♦ or ♥ shows a second 5 card suit

4 NT asks for aces or is Roman Key Card Blackwood

[Free]

OK... how about an Upper Bergen ( limit ) Raise w/4+cards ?

1S - 3D!

Huh? First you want to splinter as a prelude to keycard if he squeaks over the splinter, and now you want to merely invite game? I understand that you presumably intend to raise a signoff to game, but don't you think that these views are a tad inconsistent?

He's just looking for some lurpoa upvotes... So are you apparently :P