BunnyGo Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 I was playing last night and the auction started (P)-1♦-(1♥)-?? I had a (let's pretend decent) 6 card club suit but not a good enough hand to bid 2♣ (we're *not* playing negative free bids). So I doubled, planning on following up by bidding clubs. The auction continued: (P)-1♦-(1♥)-X(1♠)-X*-(2♥)-?? *My partner's double showed a spade suit. Now, do I have to continue with 3♣ to define my hand, or am I allowed to pass and leave everyone (including partner) in the dark? I chose to pass and it continued: (P)-1♦-(1♥)-X(1♠)-X*-(2♥)-P(P)-2♠-(P)-3♣ At this point have I shown what my hand is? Does 3♣ mean something else after having passed? Would 3♣ have meant something else instead of passing over 2♥? How do these followups work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Your double showed 4 spades. Weak with clubs is not a hand type that you can have for this double. Having said that, your partner should know what's going on after you passed 2H (which was best) and then bid 3C. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunnyGo Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Your double showed 4 spades. Weak with clubs is not a hand type that you can have for this double. Having said that, your partner should know what's going on after you passed 2H (which was best) and then bid 3C. I thought that when not playing negative free bids, a double and then bid of a new suit shows a hand that would have made a negative free bid. Is that completely incorrect? Am I confusing this with some other situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 It is true that double followed by 3♣ shows a weak hand with long clubs. However, it still shows four spades also. A weak hand with clubs only can chose between:- pass- 1NT (if you have a heart stopper)- 2♦ (if you have 3+ diamonds)- 3♣ (if you have seven, or a good six-card suit) You may be confusing it with:1♦-(2♣)-x-pass2♥-(pass)-2♠which shows a weak hand with long spades and does not promise heart or diamond tollerance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmcw Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 I can feel a headache coming on. First you X showing ♠, then you pull! seemingly denying ♠. Makes no sense to me. Try passing at your first turn and introduce ♣ if the auction permits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 After 1C- 1S you can double and then bid 2H with a weak hand and long hearts. But it's not playable to double with long diamonds, the auction might go 1C - 1S - Dbl - 3S - 4H. In the old days the negative double would be more ambiguous, but nowadays it's all about the unbid majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 This may be a matter of partnership agreement, but I don't believe that the first double guarantees 4 spades. It strongly implies 4 spades, but guarantees is a bit strong. I don't see anything wrong with bidding the way Bunny bid in the original post with a hand holding 6 clubs and less than the values to bid them directly over 1♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Yes, when I was taught negative doubles many years ago it was OK to not promise the other major, but now its standard. Unfortunately you have to pass with this. I have played negative free bids and while they are useful on a hand like this, I do not like the idea of having to double with a hand an ace stronger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 I don't see anything wrong with bidding the way Bunny bid in the original post with a hand holding 6 clubs and less than the values to bid them directly over 1♥. Are you blind or what? If the opponents raise to 4H and partner has a good hand with a 4-1-6-2 shape, should he bid 4S or not? How can you say with a straight face that you don't see anything wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Are you blind or what? If the opponents raise to 4H and partner has a good hand with a 4-1-6-2 shape, should he bid 4S or not? How can you say with a straight face that you don't see anything wrong?I am neither blind nor what. Partner bidding 4♠ in competition is the risk that you take if you double on a hand without spades. If that happens, you have to decide whether to run to your 6 card club suit. Nothing is perfect. Pass is not a perfect solution, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgoetze Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 I thought that when not playing negative free bids, a double and then bid of a new suit shows a hand that would have made a negative free bid. Is that completely incorrect? Am I confusing this with some other situation? Yes, you are confusing it with the situation where you are playing negative free bids, and then have to double on a single-suited hand which is to strong to make the NFB. If you are not playing NFBs, you just have to pass some hands you would have liked to make a NFB on. Too bad. Maybe you can show it later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Han is dead on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunnyGo Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Han is dead on Usually is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunnyGo Posted September 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Thanks for the lesson, here is the full hand (with other names changed to protect the innocent): [hv=lin=pn|BunnyGo,LHO,CHO,RHO|st||md|2S59TH3D3JAC36789K,S2478KH4TJD2QC2JQ,S3JQAH29QD678KC45,|rh||ah|Board 128|sv|e|mb|p|mb|1D|mb|1H|mb|d|mb|1S|mb|d!|an|s|mb|2H|mb|p|mb|p|mb|2S|mb|p|mb|3C|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pg||pc|HJ|pc|H2|pc|H7|pc|H3|pg||pc|HT|pc|HQ|pc|HK|pc|C3|pg||pc|D3|pc|D2|pc|DK|pc|D4|pg||pc|C5|pc|CA|pc|C6|pc|C2|pg||pc|HA|pc|C9|pc|H4|pc|H9|pg||pc|CK|pc|CQ|pc|C4|pc|CT|pg||pc|ST|pc|S2|pc|S3|pc|S6|pg||pc|S9|pc|S4|pc|SJ|pc|H5|pg||pc|D6|pc|D5|pc|DA|pc|DQ|pg||pc|S5|pc|S7|pc|SA|pc|H8|pg||pc|D8|pc|D9|pc|DJ|pc|CJ|pg||pc|SK|mc|10|]400|300|[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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