Defensive Play FOUR

[BunnyGo]

How do you defend here?

[hv=pc=n&s=skj986h974dt6cat8&w=sq42ht532dkqj9cj4&n=d532c3&e=da87c2&d=w&v=n&b=12&a=p1d2cppp&p=dtd9d2dac2c8cjc3dkd5d7d6dqd3d8]399|300[/hv]

 

Bonus questions: 1) how do you feel about passing 2♣?

 

2) Do you agree with the opening lead, if not what would you have led?

 

3) How about ducking the first club trick, do you agree?

 

Edit: In response to bd71's question, East is an unknown quantity, but in a club game or online you have to take advantage of the bad plays.

 

Second Edit: In response to Han's question we play UDCA, so partner probably has 4 diamonds.

[bd71]

I really don't know what's going on here.

 

Do we know anything about East? Is he a beginner? His play seems bizarre...why is he giving us a ruff in his solid diamonds? Unless partner failed to win the first ♣ trick with an honor (and why would he do that?), then RHO has KQ♣, and driving out A♣, hoping to figure out the T♣ as you draw the rest of trump, and THEN running 4 diamond winners seems like a stand-out strategy.

 

East can't have much more high-card strength than what we know he holds (KQ♣ A♦). Probably one more card which really shouldn't be the A♠ (leaving partner with only 10 hcp...AKQJ♥...for his opener). Probably doesn't have the K♥ or he would have led toward it from dummy while he could.

 

So, in my ignorance I just want to lead conservatively so as to not give him a trick, and I want to prevent him from ever getting back to dummy to use his J♦ for a discard. I achieve these things by ruffing this ♦ and leading a ♥. Leading ♠ could give him a trick he doesn't deserve (although it's unlikely) and/or could let him back into dummy with Q♠ (if he holds A♠) to use the J♦.

 

 

Bonus questions...agree with all three of the actions you ask about there.

 

1. We can't bid 2♠ (forcing) and commit ourselves to 2N/3-level with what might only be 20 hcp between us. We should have 10-11 minimum to do that.

2. I think leading partner's bid suit without any other obvious options is easy.

3. Must duck in case partner can win (although unlikely because East probably wouldn't play trump this way if he's missing either KQ♣, or to possibly give East a guess on where T♣ is (might he finesse on the way back with KQ9xx(x)♣?).

[han]

1. I feel awful. We may be defending 2C almost cold for 4S. Is partner supposed to reopen holding Axxx x KQJxx Kxx? Double isn't very attractive either but maybe it is best. Anybody else want to play that double shows 4+ spades?

 

2. The diamond 10 seems stand-out.

 

3. It's hard to see how ducking the club could be wrong, assuming that partner's 2 of diamonds was negative.

 

By the way, what is our count carding? Has partner shown a 3-card diamond suit?

[inquiry]

Don't mind a bit. I hope others follow your examples and post their own defensive quizes. Maybe someday we will collect the best of them along with the better answers, and post them in a PDF somewhere.

 

I have opinions on all three questions.

 

1) Not thrilled with passing 2♣

2) Agree with the opening lead (confused by declarer's play on diamonds, guess he doesn't have ♥King)

3) Agree with duck first club.

 

I am confused by declarer's line of play, and there are questions about partners choice of signals. My views are contained in the following spoiler. Some discussion there in (about signals) is probably unsuited for beginners, but could be useful for others if they are not familiar with different concepts.

 

 

 

Let me add some questions (since everyone does on mine!!)

What carding is NS doing? We can expect north to have 4 ♦ on this line of play, so ♦2 is either "attitude" (I don't like diamonds but when dummy played low and East won the ACE we would have been able to figure that out. If count, must be udca. If suit preference, then what was diamond Five then Diamond three later? Anyway, what signals could partner have been trying to send us in his play in diamonds (and possibly in clubs if, as we need if we are beating this, he has two or three clubs).

 

Here is a logical possibilities:

 

 

1) diamond 2 "attitude" (I don;t like diamonds). There is no need to tell us that when dummy plays the 9 under our 10, so....

2) diamond 2 "count" (UDCA in this case), diamond 5 "suit preference for spades"

3) Diamond 2 "suit preference for hearts", diamond 5 "original count" (if normal) or "remaining count (if UDCA)

4) Club 3, off suit trump signal (suit preference for hearts, assuming partner has 2 or more clubs)

 

But let's analyze the hand without worrying about partners carding, because we were not told what it means.

 

Partner has opened light, with no hcp in either minor. Partner did not reopen with a double, despite being light with only four diamonds, so he is probably 4=3=4=2 or 3=4=4=2. If he was 4=4=4=1 he should have reopened with a takeout double in case we had a trap pass hand. Partner could also have 3♣'s but if so, at best Declarer has something like ♠xx ♥Kxx ♦Axx ♣KQ9xx where he will eventually come to 4♣, 2♦ and a ♥ for down one. With six clubs, he is probably 2=2=3=6 or 1=3=3=6 (he will not be 3=1=3=6 as that gives partner five hearts and only 4♦).

 

If he had the ♥Kx(x) declarer might have tried leading towards it instead of messing around with diamonds,so you can place partner with something like: spade ACE, heart AK (or AKQ or AKJ) for his hcp, although AQJ in hearts is still possible. With 3=4 or 4=3 in the majors.

 

I will cater to partner having ♥AQx(x). I will ruff the ♦, cash the ♣A, and since I don't know where the ♠Ten is, make the surround play of leading the spade JACK. If declarer is 2=2=3=6, three rounds of spades will force him to lead a heart even if he has the king. If he is 3=1=3=6, and covers the jack of spades, partner will return a spade and we grab 3♠ and the ♥A plus two clubs. IF he ducks the jack of spades, we continue spades, partner wins (per force with Ax originally), and lays down his heart ACE, dropping a potential singleton heart King and we get a spade at the end.

 

As for declarer's play. With six clubs, declarer should have won the first diamond on dummy and leading the club jack (five clubs, three diamonds just making). Yeah, yeah, I know, we are taught to avoid blocking the suit by winning in the short hand. But here the suit you must not block is clubs, not diamonds! Would probably have been a better "play" problem for beginners and a better defensive problem for intermediates. :)

 

 

[BunnyGo]

Would probably have been a better "play" problem for beginners and a better defensive problem for intermediates. :)

 

Probably true. I also considered posting the hand from partner's point of view because of what's in the following spoiler.

 

 

I did make the surround play, but partner didn't realize what I'd done and so placed the spade king in declarer's hand and misdefended. It ended up letting the contract make, but was a good lesson on noticing the possibility that partner has made a surround play.

 

I agree, the declarer play was especially subpar on this hand.

 

As it turns out, any major suit return would have set the hand (as the cards were at the table) but I thought it interesting to think about what *should* be done in case partner didn't have A♠ and AK♥. It is a bit hard to read the hand though since the declarer has butchered it so badly.

 

 

 

I was South and wasn't thrilled about passing 2♣ either. When we let 2♣ make I was particularly unhappy with my decision to pass. I'm still not sure what exactly I should bid. Double and then pull 2♥ to 2♠? This line of questioning seems to run into my other post. For some reason I never really grasped this part of competitive bidding.

[inquiry]

In response to BunnyGo's spoiler text....

 

 

 

I hope your partner was not a forum member, because I am going to bash him/her just a little.

 

But first, did partner follow to the ♣A (assuming you cashed it before the smother play). Now you lead the ♠J, surely he didnt pop the ace if dummy played low, so we assume it went J-Q-A-something.

 

Partners hands are now either

x

AKxx (hearts could be AQJx, or AKQx or AKJx as well)

x

x (only if declarer had only 5♣

 

On the above hand, partner KNOWS for certain you are out of trumps. He will never lead a diamond for you to ruff. With ♥AK he will start hearts. IF and declarer will drop his heart honor (if he has one) on the second round. If partner is AKxx the QJ will both drop. Partner will now have no choice but to play you for the ♠K (else declarer is good and makes). So with this hand, no problem for partner (and you pick up ♠Txx in East

 

The question of how many clubs declarer has is only a little more difficult for partner if he has the expected two clubs. If you had four clubs and declarer five, something really funny has happened. You ruffed with the ♣TEN. Why?

 

Your potential clubs (with four) are ♣AT98, or ♣AT8x, no other combination is possible if you hold 4♣. Why would you ruff with the ♣Ten and why with a potential trump promotion on next round of diamonds (so that you win 3 clubs, not two), why would you cash the club ACE?

 

One might argue that the ♣T was a signal (high club, something in spades), but that is silly since partner will not know you have another club, and if it is a signal, partner will know you have the ♠K and not be tricked anyway. It might be also be a trump signal that you could ruff another diamond, but it takes away the trump promotion in diamonds! To get a trump promotion in diamonds, it is clear that you WOULD not cash the club ace with AT98 or ruff with the Ten and cash club Ace with AT84. So on the following hands, he knows, or should know, that you started with only three clubs.

 

Here are partners possible hands.

or

xx

AKxx (hearts could be AQJx, or AKQx or AKJx as well)

x

--

 

or

xxx

AKx (hearts could be AQJ, or AKQ or AKJ as well)

x

--

 

With solid hearts (AKQ) partner will play hearts and all is well. With broken hearts (AQJ, AQx, etc) he will exit a spade, which is great for us. With AKJ(x) or AKx(x) he is likely to start a heart. I assume here you may give attitude or you may give count signal. IF you give count, partner should work out what to do next.

 

Let's examine the two troublesome cases.

1) Partner has AKxx

2) Partner has AKJ

3) Partner has AQJ or AQJx or AQxx

 

On 1, partner will cash a heart, we will give count (odd) and he will take a second heart. Now with diamonds and hearts (declarer would have QJ doubleton) good in dummy he will be forced to return a spade.

On 2, partner will switch back to spades when we show odd number of hearts. He will score all three hearts.

On 3, Partner will not want to lead hearts. He will lead whatever his spade is now. If declarer is 3=1=3=6 we get our three spades and give partenr his heart ace. If declarer is 2=2=3=6 we force declarer to ruff third spade and partner gets two heart tricks.

 

You might consider the ♠K instead of the jack, but loses if partner happened to have doubleton spade ACE and an unexpected third club (we know partner can not be 2=?=4=2 because the ? would be 5 and he can't have five hearts) as you end up endplaying your partner if (and only if) declarer ducks the spade jack on the second round (or covers if he has the ♠Txx).

 

IF your partner tried hearts from AQJ(x) instead of returning a spade he doesn't trust you to make the "correct" play with your hand or is not up to your standard. If he tried to give you a diamond ruff, he really is insulting you as you blew your chance for trump promotion on your line of cashing the club ACE, or he is simply not thinking about the hand at all.

 

 

 

[BunnyGo]

In response to BunnyGo's spoiler text....

 

 

 

I hope your partner was not a forum member, because I am going to bash him/her just a little.

 

But first, did partner follow to the ♣A (assuming you cashed it before the smother play). Now you lead the ♠J, surely he didnt pop the ace if dummy played low, so we assume it went J-Q-A-something.

 

Partners hands are now either

x

AKxx (hearts could be AQJx, or AKQx or AKJx as well)

x

x (only if declarer had only 5♣

 

On the above hand, partner KNOWS for certain you are out of trumps. He will never lead a diamond for you to ruff. With ♥AK he will start hearts. IF and declarer will drop his heart honor (if he has one) on the second round. If partner is AKxx the QJ will both drop. Partner will now have no choice but to play you for the ♠K (else declarer is good and makes). So with this hand, no problem for partner (and you pick up ♠Txx in East

 

The question of how many clubs declarer has is only a little more difficult for partner if he has the expected two clubs. If you had four clubs and declarer five, something really funny has happened. You ruffed with the ♣TEN. Why?

 

Your potential clubs (with four) are ♣AT98, or ♣AT8x, no other combination is possible if you hold 4♣. Why would you ruff with the ♣Ten and why with a potential trump promotion on next round of diamonds (so that you win 3 clubs, not two), why would you cash the club ACE?

 

One might argue that the ♣T was a signal (high club, something in spades), but that is silly since partner will not know you have another club, and if it is a signal, partner will know you have the ♠K and not be tricked anyway. It might be also be a trump signal that you could ruff another diamond, but it takes away the trump promotion in diamonds! To get a trump promotion in diamonds, it is clear that you WOULD not cash the club ace with AT98 or ruff with the Ten and cash club Ace with AT84. So on the following hands, he knows, or should know, that you started with only three clubs.

 

Here are partners possible hands.

or

xx

AKxx (hearts could be AQJx, or AKQx or AKJx as well)

x

--

 

or

xxx

AKx (hearts could be AQJ, or AKQ or AKJ as well)

x

--

 

With solid hearts (AKQ) partner will play hearts and all is well. With broken hearts (AQJ, AQx, etc) he will exit a spade, which is great for us. With AKJ(x) or AKx(x) he is likely to start a heart. I assume here you may give attitude or you may give count signal. IF you give count, partner should work out what to do next.

 

Let's examine the two troublesome cases.

1) Partner has AKxx

2) Partner has AKJ

3) Partner has AQJ or AQJx or AQxx

 

On 1, partner will cash a heart, we will give count (odd) and he will take a second heart. Now with diamonds and hearts (declarer would have QJ doubleton) good in dummy he will be forced to return a spade.

On 2, partner will switch back to spades when we show odd number of hearts. He will score all three hearts.

On 3, Partner will not want to lead hearts. He will lead whatever his spade is now. If declarer is 3=1=3=6 we get our three spades and give partenr his heart ace. If declarer is 2=2=3=6 we force declarer to ruff third spade and partner gets two heart tricks.

 

You might consider the ♠K instead of the jack, but loses if partner happened to have doubleton spade ACE and an unexpected third club (we know partner can not be 2=?=4=2 because the ? would be 5 and he can't have five hearts) as you end up endplaying your partner if (and only if) declarer ducks the spade jack on the second round (or covers if he has the ♠Txx).

 

IF your partner tried hearts from AQJ(x) instead of returning a spade he doesn't trust you to make the "correct" play with your hand or is not up to your standard. If he tried to give you a diamond ruff, he really is insulting you as you blew your chance for trump promotion on your line of cashing the club ACE, or he is simply not thinking about the hand at all.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, he is a forum member. Yeah, we discussed all that. Rest is in spoiler:

 

 

He did have 2 clubs. I did cash the club A. J of spades, Q, A. Then KA of hearts with me signaling 94 UD (maybe 97 is even more obvious for a spade back). Then he led a diamond. He had a previous conception about the hand stuck in his head, and it was reinforced by the idea that I "couldn't" have the spade K.

 

I'll post the whole hand later (and the hand it "could have been" for this to have been a superior defensive line).

 

 

 

 

 

But at least he was thinking:

 

"Wrong thoughts are good. Correct thoughts are great. No thoughts are bad."

[Antrax]

Partner can't be super-shapely, so he must have a full opener. That leaves RHO with the bare minimum 2-level overcall. We already saw the diamond ace from him, he must at least one club honor (more likely the K unless he bids 2♣ on Q9xxx), and probably at least one heart honor (if partner's hearts are AKQJ, he'd probably have opened 1♥). That leaves him no room for the spade ace.

Partner has 4 diamonds, so declarer is out of diamonds. So we just lock him out of dummy: ruff with the T, cash club ace, lead spade jack. Now he can't finesse partner's heart honor(s) or cash the ♦J.

[inquiry]

In highsight...

I can appreciate why your partner got it into his/her head that you didn't have the spade King. You did pass over 2♣. Maybe he decided you couldn't hold the spade king and pass. Still, however, I think whatever his hand is, the lines of play above are correct. But I can see why your partner "knew" declarer had the spade King.

[BunnyGo]

Partner can't be super-shapely, so he must have a full opener. That leaves RHO with the bare minimum 2-level overcall. We already saw the diamond ace from him, he must at least one club honor (more likely the K unless he bids 2♣ on Q9xxx), and probably at least one heart honor (if partner's hearts are AKQJ, he'd probably have opened 1♥). That leaves him no room for the spade ace.

Partner has 4 diamonds, so declarer is out of diamonds. So we just lock him out of dummy: ruff with the T, cash club ace, lead spade jack. Now he can't finesse partner's heart honor(s) or cash the ♦J.

 

Very nice. Just to follow up, why the Jack in particular? How do you know you haven't just blown up a spade trick when dummy covers the queen and partner wins the ace?

[Antrax]

The J is only bad if declarer has the T but I expect partner to return a spade and I can finesse my 8. Declarer doesn't have 4 spades because otherwise partner would open 1♥.

What worries me more is partner having A2 of spades and declarer ducking the jack. Now I have to continue a low spade and partner can't return a spade. Hopefully he can just play a trump in that position.

[wyman]

The J is only bad if declarer has the T but I expect partner to return a spade and I can finesse my 8. Declarer doesn't have 4 spades because otherwise partner would open 1♥.

What worries me more is partner having A2 of spades and declarer ducking the jack. Now I have to continue a low spade and partner can't return a spade. Hopefully he can just play a trump in that position.

 

You play the J instead of the K exactly because the declarer may have 10x(x). If partner has A2 of spades, probably he'll be endplayed. Not much we can do about it.

[wyman]

Also, I was CHO here and made a boneheaded return of a diamond. Admittedly, I was not thinking hard at this point, but my view of the hand was that partner had Jxxx/xxx/xx/AK108.

 

This made sense since OP didn't get in the auction, since declarer (who actually held ♣KQxxxx) didn't continue trumps (???), and since partner led the ♠J. All of these said to me that partner didn't have the spade king. I had visions of partner trumping my diamond return and pinning declarer in hand to possibly have to lead away from ♠K9.

 

If I had given this about 1/4 second more thought, I'd have seen that if this were the position (a) we're always beating it if P has the ♣K, so who cares, (b) declarer could just pitch a spade on the diamond thru and I'm never scoring a spade anyway, © there's a potential surrounding play that partner might be looking to exploit, so he might have led the J from KJ9x, and (d) partner can't possibly have an exit card with which to pin declarer in hand anyway.

 

So yeah, I goofed big time. Well done seeing the surrounding play, and sorry for punishing you for it.

 

edit: incidentally, my diamond spots were count (UD) then SP. Is this more-or-less normal?

[Antrax]

What's a surrounding play?

[wyman]

What's a surrounding play?

 

 

[hv=pc=n&s=skj92hdc&w=sq43hdc&n=sa65hdc&e=st87hdc]399|300[/hv]

 

South on lead. Note (actually work this out) that he must play the J to keep declarer from taking a trick in the suit. Your J and 9 "surround" declarer's 10.

[BunnyGo]

edit: incidentally, my diamond spots were count (UD) then SP. Is this more-or-less normal?

 

Normal or not, I understood it at the time. Dunno if it's the agreement that experts (or even good) players would have in a situation, but I think that when pitching a suit that has nothing more to be said about it (except that you want to pitch it) SP is a nice default.

[kgr]

What worries me more is partner having A2 of spades and declarer ducking the jack. Now I have to continue a low spade and partner can't return a spade. Hopefully he can just play a trump in that position.

Certainly. He will be 2443 if he has 2c♠

[inquiry]

edit: incidentally, my diamond spots were count (UD) then SP. Is this more-or-less normal?

Perfectly normal.

 

Dummy had ♦KQJ9 and your partner lead the TEN, and dummy played the NINE. Now this is a very, very rare occurrence. Both North and South should realize who has the ♦ACE. I mean gosh. So obviously, no matter how strong your agreement is for giving "attitude" at signal one, attitude is out of the question.

 

So your first diamond has to be either "count" or "attitude". What it is, is surely up to you. I believe here my default would also be count like your use. IF first diamond is count, then the next diamond has to be suit preference. If diamond 2 was suit preference, then second is "count" (remaining or original depending upon agreement). The question is what suit should north signal.

 

So the ♦5 would point interest to spades. How good where your hearts? Did you imagine the need of a spade lead when holding ATx of spades to avoid being endplayed in hearts? Did you have Ax of spades and looking for a ruff?

[BunnyGo]

Sorry for the long delay in posting an answer. Many people already got it right, and there was even a discussion of a surrounding play. Here was the actual hand (I've left wyman in as my partner since he's already mentioned he was)

 

 

[hv=lin=pn|BunnyGo,A,wyman,B|st||md|2S689JKH479D6TC8TA,S24QH235TD9JQKC4J,S5TAH68KAD2345C39,|rh||ah|Board 124|sv|n|mb|p|mb|1D|mb|2C|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pg||pc|DT|pc|D9|pc|D2|pc|DA|pg||pc|C2|pc|C8|pc|CJ|pc|C3|pg||pc|DK|pc|D5|pc|D7|pc|D6|pg||pc|DQ|pc|D3|pc|D8|pc|CT|pg||pc|CA|pc|C4|pc|C9|pc|C5|pg||pc|SJ|pc|SQ|pc|SA|pc|S3|pg||pc|HK|pc|HJ|pc|H9|pc|H2|pg||pc|HA|pc|HQ|pc|H4|pc|H3|pg||pc|D4|pc|S7|pc|S6|pc|DJ|pg||mc|8|]400|300|[/hv]

 

I probably should double 2 clubs, but so it goes. As you can see, it didn't matter that I led the J of spades this time, but imagine if the hand were

 

[hv=lin=pn|BunnyGo,A,wyman,B|st||md|2S689JKH479D6TC8TA,S24QH235TD9JQKC4J,S5AH68QKD2345C369,|rh||ah|Board 124|sv|n|mb|p|mb|1D|mb|2C|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pg||pc|DT|pc|D9|pc|D2|pc|DA|pg||pc|C2|pc|C8|pc|CJ|pc|C3|pg||pc|DK|pc|D5|pc|D7|pc|D6|pg||pc|DQ|pc|D3|pc|D8|pc|CT|pg||pc|CA|pc|C4|pc|C9|pc|C5|pg|]400|300|[/hv]

 

If I'm going to lead a spade, then I *have* to lead the Jack. (granted, partner is *way* too light for a 1♦ opening, but I was having trouble constructing another hand where it mattered).

 

Antrax is right, if dummy ducks, then partner is potentially endplayed in different situations (he may have to break hearts), but in situations where partner has to give up a heart trick and has only Ax of spades, it means he has to have a third club and we'll set it 1 trick anyways.