BunnyGo Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 You know your partner has a "light" style of preempting, even in second seat. What do you bid? [hv=pc=n&s=sj8hak7dakt6ca654&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=p4sp]133|200[/hv] Do you just bid 6? Do you try for 7, or try to stop in 5? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 You know your partner has a "light" style of preempting, even in second seat. What do you bid? [hv=pc=n&s=sj8hak7dakt6ca654&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=p4sp]133|200[/hv] Do you just bid 6? Do you try for 7, or try to stop in 5?I just keycard here. The question is whether in second seat partner will open 4♠ off AKQxxxx and out, which is more of a style thing than anything else, if partner bids 5♠, I will bid 5N and partner should know I won't expect him to have a king alongside an AKQ high suit for a 4 bid, so I may well be looking for an 8th one or a Q and expect him to do something sensible. If he's got K10xxxxxx we might be in a slam missing AQx of trumps, but so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Keycard is sensible but then I want to blast 7♠ after a 2 response. Pre-empts in 2nd seat are at least as likely to grab partner as opposed to the opps and should NOT be as random. I once played with a guy notorious for his weak 2's and got him to promise that he would have a 6 card suit in 2nd chair. A few hands in he opened 2♥ in 2nd on 98732 and went out the door. I said "You promised to have a 6 bagger." He said, "I did. Clubs." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 30 years ago Jeff Rubens published his Useful Space Principle articles. One things that got discussed a lot was devising responses to preempts where there wasn´t likely to be much outside. Here, it is useful to know partner´s suit length, and afaik there isnt a way to determine this. ´ It took this long to get kickback into vogue perhaps determining suit lengths is next on the list :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Keycard looks perfect. Even if partner has king eighth and out with no ten that is a perfectly reasonable slam (AT, AQ, A, Q on). If you add the ten it's a very good slam (now you can pick up AQx on). No reason to just jump to 6, we might be off the AK of spades, and we might be cold for 7 (which partner can sometimes bid over 4N, 5N). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VM1973 Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Depends on what you mean by "light style." Would he open 4♠ on: ♠109xxxxxx♥x♦xx♣xxfor example? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyman Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Depends on what you mean by "light style." Would he open 4♠ on: ♠109xxxxxx♥x♦xx♣xxfor example? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunnyGo Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 No. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Keycard seems obvious. Even the most undisciplined pard should have something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunnyGo Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 For all the people who bid keycard (I did not, for better or worse...probably worse): partner would bid 5♣ showing 1. If you continue with 5♦, he'll deny the Queen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 For all the people who bid keycard (I did not, for better or worse...probably worse): partner would bid 5♣ showing 1. If you continue with 5♦, he'll deny the Queen. I still go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 For all the people who bid keycard (I did not, for better or worse...probably worse): partner would bid 5♣ showing 1. If you continue with 5♦, he'll deny the Queen. 1 keycard, I bid slam. As I said earlier 8 to the king is ok, 8 to the KT is great, and obviously 8 to the ace is great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Also, obviously if partner has 8 spades my AK AK A will cover the rest, hence why I'm only talking about the trumps. I am assuming partner has 8 if he has only one of the top 4 honors, for obvious reasons. I assume "light" does not mean suicidal. He might have 7-5 or something with a bad suit, but that would be unlucky. Even opposite AT9xxxx and KJxx or something, slam is good. I do not think it is unreasonable to hope for at least the ten nine if partner has 7 bad spades in 2nd seat at equal vul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 I would not think anything but asking the keycards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunnyGo Posted September 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 I should have asked for keycards, I just bid 6. The names have been changed to protect the innocent. [hv=lin=pn|BunnyGo,LHO,CHO,RHO|st||md|2S8JH7KAD6TKAC456A,S4QH4TJD25JC789JQ,S23579TAH289QD49C,|rh||ah|Board 120|sv|o|mb|p|mb|4S|mb|p|mb|6S|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pg||pc|H3|pc|HA|pc|H4|pc|H2|pg||pc|S8|pc|S4|pc|S2|pc|SK|pg||pc|H5|pc|HK|pc|HT|pc|H8|pg||pc|SJ|pc|SQ|pc|SA|pc|S6|pg||mc|12|]400|300|[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 It really depends on how light partner opens imo. Can it be a 7 card (apparently yes), can it be a 6 card, what is the minimum strength in his suit,... If you use the old rule of 1/2/3 then this is a simple raise to 7♠ (partner bids for -2, we have 5 tricks => 13 tricks) although you might doublecheck on keycards for safety reasons. If he opens significantly lighter, then I'd still bid to at least 6 but it doesn't hurt to ask about keycards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyman Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Incidentally, if partner asks for keycards (1430) do you bid 5♣ or 6♣? You don't have 100% certainty of even 5-level safety; on the other hand, knowledge of the club void may be useful. Also, how does void-showing usually work over 4C mod-RKC? 5D = 1+void, 5H = 2+some void? Or do we bid the void? Or ... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunnyGo Posted September 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Incidentally, if you ask for keycards (1430) does partner bid 5♣ or 6♣? You don't have 100% certainty of even 5-level safety; on the other hand, knowledge of the club void may be useful. Also, how does void-showing usually work over 4C mod-RKC? 5D = 1+void, 5H = 2+some void? Or do we bid the void? Or ... ? FYP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegmund Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 Put me down for 6S without asking. A classical partner is supposed to have a 7-trick preempt here. Opposite AKQ-7 and out I will have good chances to make 7 but it may well not be a laydown; opposite any lesser holding I won't. Eight cards AK? Awfully heavy for equal vulnerability if you're classical. If partner is described as "light even in second seat" I think we can discount that as an extremely remote possibility. Most likely is a 7-card suit missing one of the top three plus some other modest value, or a broken 8-card suit. I'd rather have an agreement to use 4NT as some more meaningful kind of trump-quality ask than RKC here -- perhaps 'just like GSF but one level lower' is a good simple agreement - but I've never had a partner who bothered to form such an agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 Incidentally, if partner asks for keycards (1430) do you bid 5♣ or 6♣? You don't have 100% certainty of even 5-level safety; on the other hand, knowledge of the club void may be useful. Also, how does void-showing usually work over 4C mod-RKC? 5D = 1+void, 5H = 2+some void? Or do we bid the void? Or ... ? Def don't show the void imo, your hand is so bad and parnter will OFTEN have the CA. Even if he doesn't he probably will have the other 3 keycards, so you won't miss slam. If we have what partner needs for 7, oh well, I wouldn't worry about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyman Posted September 2, 2011 Report Share Posted September 2, 2011 Def don't show the void imo, your hand is so bad and parnter will OFTEN have the CA. Even if he doesn't he probably will have the other 3 keycards, so you won't miss slam. If we have what partner needs for 7, oh well, I wouldn't worry about it. So this was my thought as well. But is there a hand on which you'd show the void? Even if your hand was the nuts, partner still probably has the club ace. Take like 8 solid/x/xxxx/--. Just curious (and also curious when and how you show voids after 4C). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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