wyman Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 [hv=pc=n&s=s9862h82dt6ck8754&w=st754hkt74d843cj2&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=p1ddp2dp2hppp]266|200[/hv] T1: ♦10, 3, A, 7T2: ♦K, 5, 6, 4T3: ♦2, 9, ♥2, 8 What's partner's carding mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 [hv=pc=n&s=s9862h82dt6ck8754&w=st754hkt74d843cj2&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=p1ddp2dp2hppp]266|200[/hv] T1: ♦10, 3, A, 7T2: ♦K, 5, 6, 4T3: ♦2, 9, ♥2, 8 What's partner's carding mean? Where NS playing precision? If not, it seems North has to be something like 3♠-4♥-3♦-3♣ or 4♠-3♥-3♦-3♣. The reason being the sequence and cards played. If partner had played the normal ♦K, ♦A and then ♦2 you would have returned a club, thinking partner ♦2 was suit preference. Partner wanted to warn you off of returning a club, and is suggesting a spade return. The specific rule I use in this situation is: On a suit lead by partner, when we win A from AK and then play the King next we are either asking partner to unblock the suit, or it shows suit preference for a higher suit. A corollary is when we play these honors in normal sequence, we deny S/P for the higher suit. I have moved this to General Bridge Discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyman Posted August 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Thanks for moving this to a more suitable forum, Ben. I posted in A/E since I know what this tends to show, but a world class player did this with a hand I didn't expect. N/S are not playing precision, and north has Q3 / Q95 / AKJ2 / Q1098. Does north really want a spade shift? Seems to me like there's plenty of room for south to have some cards in his hand here. ♠A, for instance? South returned the ♣4 at trick 4, which caused me further confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeegan Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 :huh: I'm not following your presentation. You led the ♦ 10 which pard won with the ace. He returned the ♦ six, which you hold. You played the ♦ 5, which you don't have which was won by dummy's ♦ king which it doesn't have???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 He led the ♦10, his partner won the A and led the K, and then the partner led the ♦2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 :huh: I'm not following your presentation. You led the ♦ 10 which pard won with the ace. He returned the ♦ six, which you hold. You played the ♦ 5, which you don't have which was won by dummy's ♦ king which it doesn't have????All cards are shown in the order actually played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 He led the ♦10, his partner won the A and led the K, and then the partner led the ♦2.OP is not South, either.South returned the ♣4 at trick 4, which caused me further confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiddity Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 edit: nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyman Posted August 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 OP is not South, either. I did not play this hand. North is Dano di Falco, and South is JEC. This is board 8 from yesterday's (Fri 26 Aug) Cayne match. All cards are in the order played. T1: South led the 10 of diamonds and North won the ace.T2: North continued the DK, which held.T3: North returned the D2, ruffed by south.T4: South returned a small club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 Maybe I take a stab at it. I agree with the general principle that if partner wins with the A and then plays the king, he is supposed to be trying to send some sort of message. Possibly the message here is "I do not have a quick entry." With a quick club entry he plays K,A, deuce of diamonds. With a quick spade entry he plays A,K,J of diamonds (in practical terms the J and 2 are equal). With no quick entry he plays as he did. Obviously I am guessing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 (edited) Maybe I take a stab at it. I agree with the general principle that if partner wins with the A and then plays the king, he is supposed to be trying to send some sort of message. Possibly the message here is "I do not have a quick entry." With a quick club entry he plays K,A, deuce of diamonds. With a quick spade entry he plays A,K,J of diamonds (in practical terms the J and 2 are equal). With no quick entry he plays as he did. Obviously I am guessing.That looks like an advanced/expert guess to me. Partner cannot have only 3 diamonds on the auction and looking at dummy. Edit: Also it seems that the takeout doubler had 4 diamonds, as well, since with five partner could have played K then A then middle, trusting partner to see the spots played by declarer and showing no particular interest in the return of either black suit. Edited August 27, 2011 by aguahombre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 I realise that it has nothing to do with the question, but am I alone in finding it slightly odd that West would cue 2D with a 4 count, and his partner bid a passive NF 2H bid with a 19 count? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 I realise that it has nothing to do with the question, but am I alone in finding it slightly odd that West would cue 2D with a 4 count, and his partner bid a passive NF 2H bid with a 19 count?You are definitely not alone. Playing with my peers, I often decide they bid em their way, I bid em mine. Apparently this applies at much higher levels also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 anyway, regardless of what the diamond signals meant, it is right to return a club. A Club loser can go away on declarer's long diamond. A spade cannot. Protect pard from himself, in case he has the club ace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeegan Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 :P Now I get it. The return of the ♦ deuce calls for a club. But, why did he play the ♦ ace and king in the wrong order? Maybe I should lead the ♣ king? I don't see how that can hurt. Partner opened the bidding, so he must have more than just the ♦ AK. Maybe because he is one of the best players in the world, and you are paying him plenty, he has the ♣ ace and wants to wake you up so that you see that your side needs to cash both clubs before you uppercut dummy with the 4th diamond. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Partner is clearly saying that he doesn't have a black ace or king, and warning us against underleading an ace. I think the best (only?) chance to beat it is to find him with Qx AQx AKJx Qxxx, which gives declarer AKJ Jxxx Q109x Axx. In this layout I have to switch to a club whilst my small trump still controls the diamond suit. Hence I play a club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyman Posted August 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Partner is clearly saying that he doesn't have a black ace or king, and warning us against underleading an ace. I had considered this, and I actually really like it; I think it's more likely to encounter situations where we have a doubleton opposite AKxx(x) than xx opp AKx. In the case where we have length, we can usually afford to play KA-high or KA-low fairly unambiguously. So it's nice to have a "no quick entry" signal: i.e., no A or K. And playing A-then-K seems like a nice way to show that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 winning the first 2 tricks in the reverse order suggests leading the higher suit that makes sense IMO that means here lead a ♠ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 I had considered this, and I actually really like it; I think it's more likely to encounter situations where we have a doubleton opposite AKxx(x) than xx opp AKx. In the case where we have length, we can usually afford to play KA-high or KA-low fairly unambiguously. So it's nice to have a "no quick entry" signal: i.e., no A or K. And playing A-then-K seems like a nice way to show that.That wasn't quite what I meant. In isolation, playing ace then king asks for a spade. In isolation, playing the two instead of the jack asks for a club. Making two conflicting signals says that he doesn't want either suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 unless he only had 3 cards in the suit to start with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 unless he only had 3 cards in the suit to start with?That would make RHO 1354, which is unlikely given the bidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 unless he only had 3 cards in the suit to start with?already covered as not possible having opened 1D and not having 4-4 in the majors, a truly strange double with 5 diamonds, one spade, and a simple 2H response to the cue with a 3-bagger. All that information is knowable to the opening leader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyman Posted August 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 That wasn't quite what I meant. In isolation, playing ace then king asks for a spade. In isolation, playing the two instead of the jack asks for a club. Making two conflicting signals says that he doesn't want either suit. So then, is it "a spade unless partner 100% knows I have > 3" or "a spade if 3, no entry if >3, up to partner to figure out which is most likely"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 East can have a balanced hand with five diamonds and a hand too strong for a simple 1NT overcall. In fact, a balanced hand too strong for a notrump overcall is the hand type he probably (and actually) holds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 So then, is it "a spade unless partner 100% knows I have > 3" or "a spade if 3, no entry if >3, up to partner to figure out which is most likely"? In general, I think he should signal what he wants to show, and hope we can work it out. The worst that can happen is that he tries to show no preference but it gets interpreted as a preference. If that's happening, any sequence of plays was going to be interpreted as a preference, so he's no worse off. On this particular deal, he will assume that we know. It's inconceivable that we will confuse 2=3=4=4 with 4=4=3=2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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