Cashout aginst 3NT

[shevek]

[hv=pc=n&s=saq942ht4djt96ck3&w=s853hk53da732cat9&n=st76hqj976dq8cj54&e=skjha82dk54cq8762&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=1n(12-14)2s3sp3nppp]399|300[/hv].

 

IMPs

Perhaps your partnership has signalling methods to handle this. Or is it simply a matter of judgement & analysis?

Anyway, I led ♠4.

After declarer played ♣A-another, I led ♦J for -600.

Up to you what partner plays on the first 3 tricks.

[JLOGIC]

This one is very tough, I don't think any method will work perfectly against all possible layouts. A few things are for sure:

 

1) Trick 1 partner must play the spade ten

2) Partner can never play the club jack, so his options are low-hgh or high-low.

 

Probably the best method for this deal would be smith where partner encourages spades when he has 3 spades and no entry. This method will not help you figure out which red suit to play when a red suit play is neded though (suit preference for red suits will work much better on those layouts). SP would be great if there was a clear neutral signal partner could give to suggest no fast entry and 3 spades, but point 2 precludes that.

 

Some kind of method where high-low vs low-high shows spade count would obviouly also be perfect but again that gives no information about the red suits which might be important, and I don't know in what situations that signal should be turned on.

[twcho]

the first ♠ must be showing count. So when playing standard count, north should play the 6 while playing udca, he should play the 10.

 

From south point of view, he should know that east has two S honors and he knows north knows this fact (south won't lead a low card if having 3 honor cards). So north 1st S card must be showing length.

[marcD]

I must say that at the table I would have played ♠T on the first trick; however it is unclear what this is supposed to accomplish (unless we cater for partner leading low from KQJxx)with 3 spades in dummy. Playing our lowest spade gives partner a chance to figure out the situation. Barring that my clubs would be smith and it is indeed a good thought to signal positively with the jack or 3 spades (especially when one has no entry). Very tough

[JLOGIC]

Playing your lowest spade will not help partner, it will confuse him. He will think you have 76 doubleton. I suppose in this exact situation you can play standard count (even if you normally play udca) with the holding of T76 on the 853 board and the S4 lead, and that would be superior to playing third hand high. This doesn't seem that practical, but OP did specify any plausible agreement.

[gnasher]

I would give standard count with ♠6, then make an encouraging Smith Peter.

 

Upside-down signals aren't always a good idea.

[Free]

It should be possible playing Smith. Since North didn't Dbl 3♠ and encourages ♠s, he must have a 3 card support.

[whereagles]

Regardless of whatever you think it's best and/or obvious, know that Franck Multon had once a similar problem at the 1997 Bermuda Bowl (which he later on won!) and even he couldn't figure it out.

[Free]

Regardless of whatever you think it's best and/or obvious, know that Franck Multon had once a similar problem at the 1997 Bermuda Bowl (which he later on won!) and even he couldn't figure it out.

Times change... It's like telling a slam with trump AK was bid many years ago, while these days RKC could easily avoid this slam.

[billw55]

Out of curiosity, what was west expecting east to rebid *without* a spade stopper?

[Fluffy]

I don't understand any method that doesn't play third highest with a honnor.

 

As Free said and Justin suggested perhaps simple smith echo might do the trick, at least that's the best north can do.

[whereagles]

A Smith echo saying "I dislike spades", I guess? How can North know his pard has 5 spades?

[gnasher]

I don't understand any method that doesn't play third highest with a honnor.

The reason to play high is to promote a trick in partner's hand. If your spades were 742, you'd know that there was no chance that the 7 would promote a trick in partner's hand, so you'd give count, wouldn't you?

 

With this bidding, and this holding in dummy, there is also no chance that the 10 will promote a trick in partner's hand. Therefore the two situations are equivalent and you should give count with this holding too.

[whereagles]

With this bidding, and this holding in dummy, there is also no chance that the 10 will promote a trick in partner's hand. Therefore the two situations are equivalent and you should give count with this holding too.

 

Let's be careful here... if you play low to give count you might let declarer win the 9 from AQ9 :)

[mikeh]

I think that N should give count for the reasons Andy set forth and then N should use smith (or as I prefer, reverse smith) so that partner will know the original count was not from a stiff....which was definitely possible on the auction. Of course, the odds are that I will already have indicated that I have more than 1 ♠ because it took me some time to figure out not to play the 10 B-)

[mikeh]

Let's be careful here... if you play low to give count you might let declarer win the 9 from AQ9 :)

Only when partner overcalled on KJxx, and I'm willing to take that risk, since I don't plan to play with him again....unless he is paying a LOT of money.

[VM1973]

I basically agree with gnasher. North knows what's going on since he knows A) South didn't overcall 1NT on a 4-bagger and B) He didn't underlead 3 honors. So the closed hand is marked with 2 honors. It shouldn't be the AJ because South should have led K from KQ9xx so it must be either KJ or QJ.

 

When North plays the 6 and the closed hand wins with the J the hand becomes clear. North is marked with the 7 and surely he wouldn't have played low from ♠76 so he must have 3 and South will know to cash the ♠A.

[whereagles]

I don't plan to play with him again....unless he is paying a LOT of money.

 

ahah, who would want to hire you? lol

[gnasher]

When North plays the 6 and the closed hand wins with the J the hand becomes clear. North is marked with the 7

I wouldn't rely on that. Declarer might win the jack from KJ107 to encourage a spade continuation - eg if he had KJ107 AQx xx Q8xx.

[VM1973]

I wouldn't rely on that. Declarer might win the jack from KJ107 to encourage a spade continuation - eg if he had KJ107 AQx xx Q8xx.

It's funny how I agree with you and then you disagree with me.

 

Of course, signaling low might not work either as it might seem to be low, but just be a singleton.

 

On the other hand, at IMPs, the defense will take whatever risks are necessary to set the contract. At matchpoints it might make a difference because they will worry that extra overtricks will mean a zero.

[gnasher]

It's funny how I agree with you and then you disagree with me.

You said you agreed with something I'd said, then you said something else that I didn't agree with. What would you expect me to do in those circumstances?

 

Of course, signaling low might not work either as it might seem to be low, but just be a singleton.

Yes, that's why you need Smith Echoes as well.

 

On the other hand, at IMPs, the defense will take whatever risks are necessary to set the contract. At matchpoints it might make a difference because they will worry that extra overtricks will mean a zero.

With the example I gave, a diamond switch would beat the contract and a spade continuation would let it through.

[VM1973]

You said you agreed with something I'd said, then you said something else that I didn't agree with. What would you expect me to do in those circumstances?

 

 

Yes, that's why you need Smith Echoes as well.

 

 

With the example I gave, a diamond switch would beat the contract and a spade continuation would let it through.

[hv=pc=n&s=sat876h32dJ76ck96&w=s54hakjtdk543c842&n=sj93h9865daq108ct7&e=skq2hq74dt2caqj53&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=1n(12-14)p2cp2dp3nppp]399|300[/hv]

 

South leads the ♠7,4,J,K.

Next comes the ♥7,3,A,5.

Then comes the ♣2,7,J,K.

 

Our perceptive South, noting the missing ♥4 decides his partner must be starting the famous Smith Echo to announce the original holding of QJ3 in the North. Confidently our South leads ♠6 but the declarer chalks up +630 with 2 spades, 4 clubs, and 4 hearts.

 

Meanwhile in the closed room 3NT is beaten 5 tricks (4 diamonds, 4 spades, and the club K). How much is 1130, some 15 IMPs?

 

Sometimes you get the bear... sometimes the bear gets you.

[gnasher]

I don't really understand your point, but on this hand South should probably duck the first club.

[mikeh]

[hv=pc=n&s=sat876h32dJ76ck96&w=s54hakjtdk543c842&n=sj93h9865daq108ct7&e=skq2hq74dt2caqj53&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=1n(12-14)p2cp2dp3nppp]399|300[/hv]

 

South leads the ♠7,4,J,K.

Next comes the ♥7,3,A,5.

Then comes the ♣2,7,J,K.

 

Our perceptive South, noting the missing ♥4 decides his partner must be starting the famous Smith Echo to announce the original holding of QJ3 in the North. Confidently our South leads ♠6 but the declarer chalks up +630 with 2 spades, 4 clubs, and 4 hearts.

 

Meanwhile in the closed room 3NT is beaten 5 tricks (4 diamonds, 4 spades, and the club K). How much is 1130, some 15 IMPs?

 

Sometimes you get the bear... sometimes the bear gets you.

 

Your example is not a good one.

 

1stly, few good players (if any) would win the club K on the first hook....most would duck on general principles, and on your example, the cat would be out of the bag should declarer attempt to cross in hearts again, even if he led the Q on the second round.

 

2ndly, if one plays smith, N would have a far clearer come on in hearts than the 5. How about the 9? I doubt that many N's would see any need to keep the 9 in their hand, if they had QJx in spades and played regular smith!

 

It is possible to construct hands on which any device fails, whether it be Smith, Reverse Smith, udca, odd/even and so on. But your effort wasn't valid.

 

You might also want to take a constructive lesson from this. That is: when you want to send a message, make it as clear as you can afford to. Thus, as N, were you playing regular smith, and you hold 9854, whatever you do don't play the 5!!!!!!! Play the f&*king 9....don't play the 5 and then blame partner for not reading it :D

 

No expert player would fall for the play you described simply because no expert player would play partner to play the 5 from 9854/954/854. Of course, on a different day, where the red suits were switched and if opener has Q987 in diamonds, opposite AKJ10, the bear may well have bitten us, but even then only if we are dumb enough to win the first club. Once we duck, partner gets to play the 4 the next time and we can work it out.

[VM1973]

Your example is not a good one.

 

1stly, few good players (if any) would win the club K on the first hook....most would duck on general principles, and on your example, the cat would be out of the bag should declarer attempt to cross in hearts again, even if he led the Q on the second round.

 

2ndly, if one plays smith, N would have a far clearer come on in hearts than the 5. How about the 9? I doubt that many N's would see any need to keep the 9 in their hand, if they had QJx in spades and played regular smith!

 

It is possible to construct hands on which any device fails, whether it be Smith, Reverse Smith, udca, odd/even and so on. But your effort wasn't valid.

 

You might also want to take a constructive lesson from this. That is: when you want to send a message, make it as clear as you can afford to. Thus, as N, were you playing regular smith, and you hold 9854, whatever you do don't play the 5!!!!!!! Play the f&*king 9....don't play the 5 and then blame partner for not reading it :D

 

No expert player would fall for the play you described simply because no expert player would play partner to play the 5 from 9854/954/854. Of course, on a different day, where the red suits were switched and if opener has Q987 in diamonds, opposite AKJ10, the bear may well have bitten us, but even then only if we are dumb enough to win the first club. Once we duck, partner gets to play the 4 the next time and we can work it out.

Ok.

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sat876h632dJ76ck9&w=s54hakjtdk543ct42&n=sj93h9865daq108c876&e=skq2hq74dt2caqj53&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=1n(12-14)p2cp2dp3nppp]399|300[/hv]

 

Happier?

 

A) Surely you cannot claim that South should hold off on the first club and even if he does, dummy is still on the board with the ♣10.

B) South could easily visualize North holding ♥Q54 making his Smith Echo.

 

Now for those who are being purposefully obtuse... the point should be that every convention has its good side... and its bad. I'm sure the convention works out wonderfully on some boards... but a clever declarer can also turn it against you. So playing the Smith Echo is not a panacea for all defensive woes nor is adopting it without its risk.