Hesitations at trick one, third hand

[apjames]

Last night at the club I held some hand, and after partner lead and declarer played from dummy instantly I thought for a while, declarer saying "How long are we gonna have to wait for this card". I happened to have a singleton but I'm not sure if this is relavent. At the end of the hand, declarer told me that she would call the director on me if I paused again during the match. Could someone explain the laws to me here? I thought that I was allowed to think at trick one, and that because I always think then, it gives no information to my partner?

 

Also, if you have to play fast with a singleton, and you think for a moment when you don't, can't partner infer that you don't have a singleton if you pause? Seems pretty bad to me if that's the case.

 

Thanks.

Andrew

[wyman]

You are correct, and you should have asked for the director when declarer asked how long you'd have to wait, and again when he admonished you after the hand.

 

Don't take abuse from anyone at the table.

[pran]

This is primarily a matter of regulation, not of law. Traditionally it has been considered customary for declarer to plan his play before playing from dummy to trick one, this of course will also provide some time for third hand to plan his play.

 

Effective July 1st this year we have a new regulation in Norway making compulsory a 10 to 15 seconds pause by declarer before playing from dummy to trick one. This same regulation allows third hand to consider his play for a total delay of 10-15 seconds if declarer plays sooner.

[blackshoe]

Your opponent needs a lesson in manners, and another in the rules of the game. If she had a problem with your pause, she should have done nothing other than call the TD and report the facts. If she doesn't wish to call the TD, she should keep her mouth shut. Rudeness is against the rules of the game. Wyman is right - don't take abuse from anyone. Don't argue with them either, just call the TD and report the facts.

 

That said, hesitating with a singleton is a no-no. Various "solutions" to the problem you faced have been put forward, but all of them are flawed. Not much you can do about but do your best. Personally, I would put my singleton face down on the table, and do my thinking. I might say "I'm going to play this card, but I want to think about the hand". Not perfect, but neither is anything else.

[Bbradley62]

Is it no longer considered proper for third-seat to say "I have no problem playing to this trick, but I'm thinking about the hand before I do so"?

[wyman]

That said, hesitating with a singleton is a no-no. Various "solutions" to the problem you faced have been put forward, but all of them are flawed. Not much you can do about but do your best. Personally, I would put my singleton face down on the table, and do my thinking. I might say "I'm going to play this card, but I want to think about the hand". Not perfect, but neither is anything else.

 

Yeah this is fine until the time that you have a legit problem at T1, but LHO shotguns a card from dummy. Now you have established that you play quickly at T1 (albeit face down) with no T1 problem, so you give UI to partner and AI (that damages you) to declarer.

 

IMO just take your time always at T1. You're entitled to it. At other tricks, hesitating with nothing to think about (e.g., a singleton, 2 small, etc) is a huge no-no. Play in tempo. Work out when thinking at T1 what you're going to do if he leads any suit from dummy, etc.

[wyman]

Is it no longer considered proper for third-seat to say "I have no problem playing to this trick, but I'm thinking about the hand before I do so"?

 

I do this mid-hand if I have something to reevaluate. At trick one, I think it's unnecessary, as I can think about anything I want related to the hand -- including but not limited to this trick. And in fact, I think it's pretty poor form for declarer to not take any time at T1.

[mikeh]

Your opponent needs a lesson in manners, and another in the rules of the game. If she had a problem with your pause, she should have done nothing other than call the TD and report the facts. If she doesn't wish to call the TD, she should keep her mouth shut. Rudeness is against the rules of the game. Wyman is right - don't take abuse from anyone. Don't argue with them either, just call the TD and report the facts.

 

That said, hesitating with a singleton is a no-no. Various "solutions" to the problem you faced have been put forward, but all of them are flawed. Not much you can do about but do your best. Personally, I would put my singleton face down on the table, and do my thinking. I might say "I'm going to play this card, but I want to think about the hand". Not perfect, but neither is anything else.

Sorry, but this 'solution' is hideous. In essence, you now distinguish between hands when you have no problem and hands when you have a problem. On the former, you put your card out so that evryone can see that you quickly chose your card and then made a meaningless delay, and on the latter, you tank.

 

 

That is bad enough if you always hold out your chosen card immediately without reference to your length, but if you either intentionally or inadvertently develop the habit of only doing it with a singleton, you are really creating a problem.

 

There is in fact no problem at all. If declarer plays quickly, announce (always....absolutely always unless playing against friends whom you know to know you do this) that 'I always take time to think before playing to trick one, no matter what my holding may be'.

 

At a club game or against friends, one can choose to relax this approach a bit, but never in a manner that would allow anyone, least of all partner, to infer something about your hand. I do this routinely and it becomes easy after a while.....besides which, few declarers play at lightning speed to trick one anyway, if they know what they are doing.

[axman]

Your opponent needs a lesson in manners, and another in the rules of the game. If she had a problem with your pause, she should have done nothing other than call the TD and report the facts. If she doesn't wish to call the TD, she should keep her mouth shut. Rudeness is against the rules of the game. Wyman is right - don't take abuse from anyone. Don't argue with them either, just call the TD and report the facts.

 

That said, hesitating with a singleton is a no-no. Various "solutions" to the problem you faced have been put forward, but all of them are flawed. Not much you can do about but do your best.

 

 

Personally, I would put my singleton face down on the table, and do my thinking. I might say "I'm going to play this card, but I want to think about the hand". Not perfect, but neither is anything else.

 

 

This approach is a system of communication with partner other than by call or play which is forbidden by L73B1 and condemned by L73B2.

 

The reason for affording T1 [for the msot part] as being not tempo sensitive is to provide the opportunity for the players to plan ahead thereby avoiding tempo sensitive situations later. As such, follow at T1 with your stiff in the same tempo at T1 as you would holding a long suit. Further, the business of detaching and putting the anticipated play face down besides communicating to partner also has an intimidation factor- which if nothing else [such as telling what you are/are not 'thinking' about] says you are depriving the opponents of data/time to analyze.

[mjj29]

Everyone is entitled to think once they've seen dummy, regardless of whether they have a singleton. Third-in at trick 1 can think as long as necessary, particularly if declarer has played without thought from dummy. I'm pretty sure the EBU have a regulation to that effect. This overrides the 'don't hesitate with a singleton' clause - which is really just derived from 'no demonstratable bridge reason'. 'Analysing the hand at trick 1' is a demonstratable bridge reason.

[Cascade]

This is primarily a matter of regulation, not of law. Traditionally it has been considered customary for declarer to plan his play before playing from dummy to trick one, this of course will also provide some time for third hand to plan his play.

 

Effective July 1st this year we have a new regulation in Norway making compulsory a 10 to 15 seconds pause by declarer before playing from dummy to trick one. This same regulation allows third hand to consider his play for a total delay of 10-15 seconds if declarer plays sooner.

 

It is a matter of law that there is provision for a trick one tempo regulation.

 

When the Regulating Authority does not make such a regulation then in my opinion it is unreasonable to presume that a trick one pause is treated any differently than a hesitation at any other point in the play.

 

It is good to see that Norway has made such a regulation.

 

Your opponent needs a lesson in manners, and another in the rules of the game. If she had a problem with your pause, she should have done nothing other than call the TD and report the facts. If she doesn't wish to call the TD, she should keep her mouth shut. Rudeness is against the rules of the game. Wyman is right - don't take abuse from anyone. Don't argue with them either, just call the TD and report the facts.

 

That said, hesitating with a singleton is a no-no. Various "solutions" to the problem you faced have been put forward, but all of them are flawed. Not much you can do about but do your best. Personally, I would put my singleton face down on the table, and do my thinking. I might say "I'm going to play this card, but I want to think about the hand". Not perfect, but neither is anything else.

 

I wish reporting abuse to the Tournament Director was routinely sufficient. Too often opponents make rude comments rather than calling the director or make rude comments in response to a player calling the director. In my mind this is just a form of bullying and is unacceptable.

 

In a recent case here where I said I needed to call the director after a tempo problem I was told I was being ridiculous. Sadly when the tournament director came he said that that was acceptable!!!!

[wyman]

In a recent case here where I said I needed to call the director after a tempo problem I was told I was being ridiculous. Sadly when the tournament director came he said that that was acceptable!!!!

 

lol

 

I called the director at a sectional recently due to a tempo issue, and once the director left I was told I was ridiculous, at which time I resummoned the director, who said that play would not continue until LHO apologized. She refused and tried to play the hand, but the director stayed and waited, explaining several times that the comment was inappropriate and that I have the responsibility -- and certainly the right -- to call attention to a perceived irregularity. LHO finally apologized tongue-in-cheek, about 2 minutes later than when she should have been slapped with a PP in my mind, but the director did an excellent job handling the matter IMO. LHO was rude to the director during the process, but the director completely kept her cool (I would have just given Avg+/Avg- due to the time wasted, given LHO a full bd penalty, and moved on -- which is maybe why I'm not directing :) ).

[bluejak]

Regulation or not, it is accepted in every jurisdiction I have ever heard of that a pause at trick on by third hand is reasonable for general thought if declarer plays fast from dummy. The holding held in the suit is irrelevant and a disclaimer is not required. The only problem with this is if you do not always do it.

 

As for the OP, a DP for declarer would be completely automatic even at club level if I had been directing.

[apjames]

Thanks everyone for your input, I'm glad I wasn't mistaken.

 

As for the OP, a DP for declarer would be completely automatic even at club level if I had been directing.

 

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a DP?

 

(edited for a typo)

[pran]

Thanks everyone for your input, I'm glad I wasn't mistaken.

 

 

 

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a DP?

 

(edited for a typo)

Diciplinary penalty as specified in Law 91

 

(An alternative and more common penalty is PP: Procedural penalty as specified in Law 90)

[Jeremy69A]

That said, hesitating with a singleton is a no-no. Various "solutions" to the problem you faced have been put forward, but all of them are flawed. Not much you can do about but do your best. Personally, I would put my singleton face down on the table, and do my thinking. I might say "I'm going to play this card, but I want to think about the hand". Not perfect, but neither is anything else.

 

This advice seems flawed to me. As others have remarked if you put your card face down and tell everyone you are thinking about the whole hand you have just told partner that you have no choice to make in the card you play. The EBU's advice in this respect (published in its White Book) is

 

73.2.1 Pause by declarer before playing from dummy

A pause by declarer before playing from dummy at trick one should not give rise to the possibility of an allegation by a defender that he had been misled; indeed, such a pause is recommended practice.

 

If you take your time to plan and then play your card there is no problem unless you are intentionally trying to slow the game. What is important is that your actions with a singleton and without should be the same.

[blackshoe]

Perhaps the "solution" is to declare the game unplayable, and take up solitaire. :blink:

 

I said all solutions are flawed. They are. If you play to trick one in "normal tempo" for play to trick one, when declarer has played quickly from dummy and you have a singleton, sooner or later there will be a hue and cry. It's easy to say that the TD should rule "no infraction" in such cases, but it is human — and directors are human — to get a saying like 'never hesitate with a singleton' in one's head, and to reflexively rule on that basis rather than on the law. The higher the level of play, the less likely this should be, but clubs generally aren't at such a high level, and club TDs, particularly in North America, don't get the kind of training that the "pros" do.

[Cascade]

While I don't have the details my recollection is that there has been at least one hesitation at trick one in a world championship in which the hesitator was ruled against.

 

Its all very well having so called 'accepted practices' but when those practices are not written into the laws and regulations it is very hard to legitimately rule in favour of the 'accepted practice'. This is especially so when the laws provide a provision for a mandated trick one pause and the regulating authority in their wisdom have not so mandated.

[PeterAlan]

This advice seems flawed to me. As others have remarked if you put your card face down and tell everyone you are thinking about the whole hand you have just told partner that you have no choice to make in the card you play. The EBU's advice in this respect (published in its White Book) is

 

73.2.1 Pause by declarer before playing from dummy

A pause by declarer before playing from dummy at trick one should not give rise to the possibility of an allegation by a defender that he had been misled; indeed, such a pause is recommended practice.

If you take your time to plan and then play your card there is no problem unless you are intentionally trying to slow the game. What is important is that your actions with a singleton and without should be the same.

 

In the case of the EBU, the Orange Book is now both more specific and more accessible than the White Book:

 

7 F Pauses at trick one

 

7 F 1 It is normal for declarer to pause before playing to trick one. No inference can be or should be taken from such a pause.

 

7 F 2 It is normal for third hand to think before playing to trick one. Such thought is normally while declarer is thinking about his play. However, sometimes declarer plays quickly from dummy. At such a time third hand may legitimately think whatever his holding in the suit, and no inference can be or should be taken from such a pause. For example, if third hand has a singleton and declarer plays quickly from dummy, it is entirely legitimate for third hand to consider the hand generally.

This provision seems to have first appeared in the 2009 edition.

[blackshoe]

That seems to solve the problem in the EBU. For the rest of us, however... :ph34r:

[alphatango]

That seems to solve the problem in the EBU.

 

Almost. It is not clear whether third hand is allowed to pause (say, with a singleton) even if declarer has paused appropriately. But it is certainly a big step in the right direction.

 

For the rest of us, however... :ph34r:

 

In some of my partnerships, where both of us consistently pause at trick one regardless of the position, I've added a "Third-hand defensive pauses at trick one may be unrelated to current play" line to the pre-alert section of our system card. I'm hoping that's enough. (I think it goes a fair way towards not misleading the opponents, anyway.)

[mgoetze]

That seems to solve the problem in the EBU. For the rest of us, however... :ph34r:

 

Surely you don't believe the EBU is the only RA which has made use of this provision in the laws? (The German Bridge Federation, for instance, mandates that declarer should take 10 seconds for his first play after the dummy is tabled, and otherwise forfeits his rights with regard to UI from RHO's tempo in this trick, unless RHO then takes "considerably longer" than 10 seconds.)

[blackshoe]

Surely you don't believe the EBU is the only RA which has made use of this provision in the laws?

 

Did I say that? No, I didn't. If the German Bridge Federation has also solved the problem for Germany, good for them. I do not have the regulations of every NBO at hand, nor should I be expected to have them, or to go check them all before I make a post.

[axman]

Surely you don't believe the EBU is the only RA which has made use of this provision in the laws? (The German Bridge Federation, for instance, mandates that declarer should take 10 seconds for his first play after the dummy is tabled, and otherwise forfeits his rights with regard to UI from RHO's tempo in this trick, unless RHO then takes "considerably longer" than 10 seconds.)

 

I believe that it is dubious to establish a particular/ narrow band length of pause at T1 that is not tempo sensitive. The considerations at T1 can be considerable to non existant depending on one's holdings and as such, T1 is not a one size fits all and thus does little to solve the player's problem.

 

It is notable that an even more important 'pause time' is the time prior to beginning the auction. If the auction begins prior to everyone being ready to act in tempo, not only do nasty UI problems tend to dominate, several minutes [not including TD calls] more than would otherwise be needed can tacked on to the duration of the hand.

[bluejak]

Whether or not there is an occasion where there has been a ruling which appears doubtful - though we do not have the full facts, do we? - the purpose of this forum is how to rule. In my view, a player does not mislead opponents nor provide UI to partner if he consistently takes time at trick one in third hand. Usually the time is the same as declarer's when looking at the dummy, but if declarer plays very fast from dummy, a reasonable pause has no informational content.

 

Of course, every case needs looking at. If a player never stops to think normally, and does on one occasion, a Regulation does not excuse him from the consequences of his actions.