What is the smart way to go about this?

[Antrax]

Yeah, originally I had a sentence to say the same thing, then I deleted it because I figured it was obvious. I'm not sure where you got the idea I preached to them, I generally don't do that unless directly asked, if only because I don't think I'm qualified to answer.

[gwnn]

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I got the idea you preached to them or even said anything to them at all. I just said they would not be open to any kind of law-related advice from fellow players, especially if they would not be open to any kind of law-related advice from the TD.

[Antrax]

But that's the whole point Antrax! If they are not in a receptive state of mind when the TD explains it to them, will they be in a receptive state of mind when their RHO (i.e. the inexperienced guy who just got a bad board so he must be jealous of our success) explains the rules to them?

You seem to be addressing me both by name and by table position, telling me I shouldn't explain the rules to them. Why would you do that if you didn't think that's what I did/intend to do?

[gwnn]

I didn't think you preached, but you definitely thought of talking to them:

I had really hoped there was some diplomatic way to raise the issue of "you know, it's not ENTIRELY fair what you're doing..." without necessarily getting redress for this particular incident.

"you know, it's not ENTIRELY fair what you're doing..." is explaining the rules to them.

[Antrax]

Ah, okay. Yeah, it's bad phrasing, one of the options I considered was talking to them but I couldn't conceive of a way that would be beneficial so I dropped the issue and posted here instead :)

[JoAnneM]

I agree with the posters who suggested talking to the director after the game. You might also suggest to the director that he either talk to this offending player privately, or make a general announcement before the next game. Two things not to do is demand that the director take a certain action, or you tell the opps what they have done wrong (especially in front of other players).

 

Similar things have happened in my club and as a director have used both actions, however since many of our players are "deaf" and ignore my announcements I always talk to the players involved, privately.

 

We also have one player in our club who acts like the director at the table with both rules and bidding lessons, and she is not well liked as a result. It is an awkward situation because we are friends and regular partners. Any suggestions?

 

I like your attitude and general approach to the game. :)

[billw55]

I would be curious as to typical conduct during this club's non-beginner games.

 

Anyway, in a beginner game, at club level, things like this don't matter much to me. The only reason I see to do anything at all is to educate the offender. Perhaps you know him well enough to tell if he does or does not want to learn. I might smile and gently suggest that such comments aren't really allowed. If the response is hostile, I would drop it immediately. There's just nothing to fight over here. Players who do this probably will never show up in a tournament, and if they do they will get corrected quite rapidly.

 

That said, if this also goes on in the club's open games, I would certainly call the director. And if I got anything other than an immediate adjustment, I would consider not playing at the club again, except perhaps strictly for social activity. It obviously is not competitive bridge.

[blackshoe]

We also have one player in our club who acts like the director at the table with both rules and bidding lessons, and she is not well liked as a result. It is an awkward situation because we are friends and regular partners. Any suggestions?

 

Only one: when you are directing, treat her exactly the same way you would treat anyone else who does this. As a friend, you might have a private talk with her sometime, and explain the effect of what she's doing, and the possible consequences. Okay, that's two. :)

[BunnyGo]

The other thing, Antrax, is that where you are people are used to "flexible" rules. They don't usually see why it shouldn't be some other way (I don't have personal experience at the bridge clubs there, but with everything else it seems to be this way culturally). I wouldn't think to explain the rules to an opponent anywhere (I call the TD if I need to correct something, otherwise I let it go), but especially not there; I'd expect the conversation to go:

 

"actually, could you not do that"

 

"what? no, it's no problem, nothing, it's ok"

 

"it's against the rules"

 

"rules? what? it's just a game! don't worry, play the cards. What's the problem?"

 

etc.

 

If a teacher explains it all before the game, then maybe they'd believe him and learn something. If not, either find a new club or call the TD.

[Antrax]

I'm glad to hear you like it here ;)

[Antrax]

So, I talked to the director and asked her to give a lecture about basic tournament procedures. She said that everyone know these rules and just don't care, and instead gave a trivial lecture about discarding losers before drawing trumps. Later, the exact same situation happened: (1♠)-2♥-(X)-P, hesitation, doubler saying "just pass the double". This time I called the director to the tune of "oh, really" from the doubler. When the director came, we found out this is the second time that person did it THAT EVENING, and she's usually in the habit of playing this convention.

So I guess the smart way and the right way were one and the same, since until that point I thought that player was usually ethical.

[peachy]

... quite natural tendency to comment on the hand during the play :)

 

It is against the rules of the game, not just a "natural tendency" that the other players need to learn to tolerate. Not sure why you asked the question in the first place, it seems you had already decided that the smart way is to ignore it.

[barmar]

I think the *temptation* to comment may be natual. But players are supposed to resist this urge. While maintaining a perfect poker face may be difficult for many players, it shouldn't be that hard for them to keep from thinking out loud.

[nigel_k]

Definitely pick your battles, and I call the director less than anyone, but to me this is obv a battle worth picking. Just call the director imo. Table talk is the biggest taboo thing in card games/bridge.

I agree with this. I also will let a lot of things go, but this is inexcusable. If LHO is confused and upset and doesn't come back to the club again, it probably isn't that much of a loss to be honest.

[Foxx]

If LHO is confused and upset and doesn't come back to the club again, it probably isn't that much of a loss to be honest.

 

Addition by subtraction anyone?

[mycroft]

All I can add to this is that an opponent trying to teach (anything) is *very dangerous*, and questioning someone's ethics at the table - in any way - is *very dangerous*, so as an opponent, at the table, attempting to correct (potential) ethical issues, even with the best intent, and the best possible phrasing, is *extremely dangerous*. This is in general, and not saying anything about any particular person or hand.

 

I try, at the table, to call the TD and explain, as neutrally as possible, what happened, and then ask her "I'm just wondering if there's anything odd here." Yes, *everybody knows*, due to my status as a TD myself, that there probably is a problem, but I am just as prone to seeing things from a clearly biased perspective as any other player, so, if there isn't, this keeps everything as sane as possible.

 

Yes, add another comment to the "another option is talk to the TD afterwards." Know, however, that there is pretty much nothing she can do about *what happened* if you come by afterward; just about education for next time. If she's not willing to educate, then...

 

I tend not to fight these particular fights with these kinds of pairs, though, for the exact reason the OP said (about halfway through) - your round is likely to be 0, 12, 10-; your score overall is going to go down if you don't meet this pair, "interesting" comments or no. The ones I do try to get corrected are the ones that can actually play, but choose to play for the "extra edge".

[bill1157]

I agree with the posters who suggested talking to the director after the game. You might also suggest to the director that he either talk to this offending player privately, or make a general announcement before the next game. Two things not to do is demand that the director take a certain action, or you tell the opps what they have done wrong (especially in front of other players).

 

Similar things have happened in my club and as a director have used both actions, however since many of our players are "deaf" and ignore my announcements I always talk to the players involved, privately.

 

We also have one player in our club who acts like the director at the table with both rules and bidding lessons, and she is not well liked as a result. It is an awkward situation because we are friends and regular partners. Any suggestions?

 

 

Best is if the player(s) being "taught" can respond with an effective, non-combative response. s(he)-they should let the "teacher" know that s(he)-they aren't that interested in the legal aspect of the game!