kenberg Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 Having steeper income tax rates as we move up the income ladder is one of the few things that I find unambiguously clear. Both in absolute terms and in percentage terms it makes sense for me to pay a higher rate than someone who is struggling to get by, and it makes sense for someone who is very well off, much more so than I am, to pay at a higher rate than I do. I just don't understand the counter arguments. Both life and this country have been good to me, the country needs help, some are in a better position to help than are others. So we should get in and help. There was a letter to the editor this morning from some really smart feller suggesting that those of us who feel this way should just donate money to the government. Very clever. Not. I am happily prepared to do my part. In collaboration with others. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 Well it may seem that way to you, but it is not the case in reality.how much in federal taxes did g.e., which earned over $14B ($9B offshore, btw) pay last year? with no deductions, how much would they pay at 9%? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 Both in absolute terms and in percentage terms it makes sense for me to pay a higher rate than someone who is struggling to get by, and it makes sense for someone who is very well off, much more so than I am, to pay at a higher rate than I do.i don't think someone "struggling to get by" should pay anything, and i believe they actually don't (for the most part) pay anything... of course, it depends on how you define "getting by" There was a letter to the editor this morning from some really smart feller suggesting that those of us who feel this way should just donate money to the government. Very clever. Not. I am happily prepared to do my part. In collaboration with others.there are people who actually do what they consider to be their part... irs.gov has a link one can follow to donate money, if one feels strongly about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PassedOut Posted September 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 There was a letter to the editor this morning from some really smart feller suggesting that those of us who feel this way should just donate money to the government.That suggestion has great appeal to the free lunch crowd: It's just one more way to get others to pick up the tab for them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 That suggestion has great appeal to the free lunch crowd: It's just one more way to get others to pick up the tab for them.that's possibly true, but it certainly has no appeal for those who want to tell others what their "fair share" is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PassedOut Posted September 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Honest business people who have done well and love the US for the opportunity it provides agree that tax rates for the wealthy are too low. That drives the free lunchers crazy: Advocates of higher taxes on the wealthy do not want to punish the successful. Buffett and Doug Edwards, a millionaire who asked Obama at a recent town hall event in California to raise his taxes, are saying that none of us succeeds solely because of personal effort. We are all lucky to have been born in or, for immigrants, admitted to a country where the rule of law is strong, where property is safe, where a vast infrastructure has been built over generations, where our colleges and universities are the envy of the world, and where government protects our liberties. Wealthy people, by definition, have done better within this system than other people have. They ought to be willing to join Buffett and Edwards in arguing that for this reason alone, it is common sense, not class jealousy, to ask the most fortunate to pay taxes at higher tax rates than other people do. It is for this heresy that Buffett is being harassed.Although the idea of acting for the common good goes against the grain of those constrained by "it-is-all-about-me" world views, each of us who lives comfortably now does so because others before us have promoted the common good. It's time to abandon pettiness and raise tax rates so our children and grandchildren can live well too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 refresh my memory please... do you define "free lunchers" as those who want something for nothing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PassedOut Posted September 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 refresh my memory please... do you define "free lunchers" as those who want something for nothing?No need to rehash that. But if you see things differently, there is plenty of space here for you to state your views and your reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 i'm not saying i disagree, i'm just wondering how far you're willing to take your definition... this country is made up of a *lot* of people who not only want but actually obtain something for nothing... are all such wrong to do that? and fwiw, i think perry is about the worst person the reps could nominate... in a debate with obama the only one who would actually win is gingrich, and he's very unlikely to get the nomination... i think cain is starting to move up a little, but he too has too far to go... i do like his bumper stickers, though... "cain and unable" ... "beat obama with a cain" ... and, in a takeoff on obama's slogan, "yes we cain" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PassedOut Posted October 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 and fwiw, i think perry is about the worst person the reps could nominate... in a debate with obama the only one who would actually win is gingrich, and he's very unlikely to get the nomination... i think cain is starting to move up a little, but he too has too far to go... i do like his bumper stickers, though... "cain and unable" ... "beat obama with a cain" ... and, in a takeoff on obama's slogan, "yes we cain"Yes, looks like my prediction that Perry would stomp Romney was pretty far off the mark. <_< Cain's slogan's are amusing, for sure, but I don't see him getting the nod. On the other hand, my thinking that way probably means he has a shot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatrix45 Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 :D Rick is a real man. All the rest are faggots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted October 2, 2011 Report Share Posted October 2, 2011 Texas Gov. Rick Perry continues his Jerry-Springer-guest diatribes as ABC news reports: At a house party in Manchester, Perry said that ending the drug war in Mexico “may require our military in Mexico.” Let's see. End Social Security. Eliminate taxes. Rescind healthcare changes. And send the troops to Mexico. Yep, that ought to do it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 well it's not like we don't send our troops elsewhere out of nat'l interest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 And it's not like we haven't sent them to Mexico before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 good point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_dude Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Honest business people who have done well and love the US for the opportunity it provides agree that tax rates for the wealthy are too low. That drives the free lunchers crazy: Although the idea of acting for the common good goes against the grain of those constrained by "it-is-all-about-me" world views, each of us who lives comfortably now does so because others before us have promoted the common good. It's time to abandon pettiness and raise tax rates so our children and grandchildren can live well too. The flaw in your argument the assumption that society receives greater value when the government spends your money than when it is spent/invested by those who earned it. If the government flushed your money down the toilet, would you still be itching to send more and more money in? There are some things our gov't does well. There are some things are gov't does poorly but gains efficiency through centralized regulation. However I would argue that there are many, many more areas where the federal gov't is a massively inefficient bureaucratic waste of time and money. Personally I would rather see them get out of the areas where they are doing a poor job before asking me for more money spend poorly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Personally I would rather see them get out of the areas where they are doing a poor job before asking me for more money spend poorly.ain't gonna happen... likely to get worse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Depends on what you mean by "planet". They have defined this clearly (for now at least). Hence Pluto lost its status giving 8 planets in our system. This suggests that there was actually a path to citizenship I know that in the case of the gastarbeiter program in Germany citizenship/assimilation was never envisioned as a goal of the program. It does not need to be a goal of the program because every immigrant in Germany is offered an Integration course which is not at all expensive and provides language training up to low-intermediate level, enough for basic conversation. As for what makes people vote for any political party, well one should never underestimate voting the way of your parents or peers. I once had this exact same conversation with my mother who voted steadfastly for the right-wing party when she could never be in a position to gain from their policies. This was irrelevant to her - she had always voted for that party and always would. I suspect this is essentially the argument level of many the working class folks of The South in America. For the middle classes something else is at work. Noone actually knows your income level so by voting Republican (and espousing their views in conversation) you are essentially telling your friends and neighbours that your income level is higher than they might think. You are also quite likely to believe that you will rise to this level in time, especially in an aspirational society like America. Finally, Gerben mentioned the Green party. There are obviously committed Green voters the same as every other party. However, I think the rise of the Greens is primarily based on the fact that they represent an excellent way to protest against the system. Everyone in Germany knows that the government will be made up of the CDU or SDP plus smaller coalition partners. The FDP, Greens, Die Linke, and even the Bayern party fill this role for a protest quite nicely. Protest votes always go away for small parties that form a government too, so the Greens will naturally do well while the FDP are in power (and unpopular). The nuclear meltdown in Japan and the food scares have just been an added bonus. Give it a few cycles and things will probably return to normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 Rick Perry stock crashing on intrade. I am considering buying him, currently he is estimated to have a 12.5 % chance of winning the republican nomination. Does anyone here who is an expert feel like that is a horrible bet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 Rick Perry stock crashing on intrade. I am considering buying him, currently he is estimated to have a 12.5 % chance of winning the republican nomination. Does anyone here who is an expert feel like that is a horrible bet?Not an expert but Nate Silver thinks you shouldn't buy without having watched the debate (and the ensuing echo chamber of comments) - which I haven't. P.S.: I agree thought that it seems like a good buy. I mean, Herman Cain at 9%? That guy doesn't even care enough to campaign instead of trying to sell his book, not does he know anything about issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 Nate Silver is god. In fact, as a direct result of him I killed it on intrade 4 years ago, he had obama at 80 % and obama was trading at 50, yum yum. Too bad he became super famous and now doesn't give his %ages out, he really would just set the market. I used to play limit hold em vs him all the time when he was an online poker pro, he was good at that too. I could not watch the debates yet, but it looks like from twitter that Perry did poorly. I could have predicted that based on his stock crashing, but I cannot imagine that it was so bad, and no one is that high on Romney's debate from what I've seen. It still seems like if Perry can win Iowa, it will be a close race (from a Nate Silver previous article). Let's say he wins 40 % of the time that he wins Iowa, does he really not win Iowa more than like a third of the time? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 I think intrade has it 47% Obama.....36% Romney right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeegan Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 Rick Perry stock crashing on intrade. I am considering buying him, currently he is estimated to have a 12.5 % chance of winning the republican nomination. Does anyone here who is an expert feel like that is a horrible bet? :P Not an expert, but I can tell you that even at 14.9% he is no bet. He has been falling like a stone after some public appearance gaffes. My wife is probably the best barometer. She is a nice SMU girl & CPA from Dallas who wanted to vote for Hillary in 2008, and her best friends thought that electing GW in 2004 was "important".Now, she thinks Perry is "creepy". I guess country just ain't that cool anymore. Too much testosterone is interesting, but not an election winner even in these precincts. The only thing that is clear to me is that Perry is done. I did see that Steve Forbes just endorsed Perry. Knowing Steve, I don't think this bodes well for Senor Perry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 Maybe Romney could win with the slogan "Not as weird (or creepy ?) as the others". Actually, I sort of liked Kathleen Parker's (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-2012-candidates-running-for-americas-next-top-tv-personality/2011/10/21/gIQA0zbm4L_story.html) summary: Here, for example, is a distillation of Tuesday’s debate: Rick Santorum: Mitt, you’re a lying hypocrite, and I’m the only one here who cares about family. Ron Paul: I’d eliminate the federal government and not even go to work. Herman Cain: Nine apples, nine oranges, nine lives, whatever. Mitt Romney: Shut up, I won already. Rick Perry: I hate your guts, Mr. Vitalis, and I’m gonna take you down. Newt Gingrich: Yadda-yadda-yadda. You’re all stupid. Michele Bachmann: I will hunt Mexicans with predator drones, and Barack Obama’s cake is cooked. More or less. [/Quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 there's very little doubt that newt is the smartest guy running and, probably, the only one that would beat obama in a debate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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