Suggest an auction, please: A multi-parter.

[rhm]

A big advantage? Lol, this seems like way less than 1 % to happen.

 

Granted it is unlikely, but certainly higher than 1%. The whole condition around the table is a priori not likely and to estimate conditional probabilities is notoriously difficult.

I tried some simulations. Give West a 5 card ♥ suit or 4-6 in ♠ and ♥ and 8-11 HCP, East a maximum of 10 HCP.

Assuming partner to have at least 4 cards in ♥ and less than 3 cards in ♠, chances that he will hold a six card minor with at most 8 HCP is under the given conditions better than 3%.

 

Rainer Herrmann

[gwnn]

And how often do you think he will introduce that minor? Even if he has a singleton spade, introducing his minor would need a very good suit. If he has a doubleton, playing in spades is a no brainer.

[rhm]

And how often do you think he will introduce that minor? Even if he has a singleton spade, introducing his minor would need a very good suit. If he has a doubleton, playing in spades is a no brainer.

That depends how many ♥ partner expects opener to have. If he correctly infers why opener did not reopen with a DBL, he will expect minor suit cards.

With a weak hand and only long ♠ opener would not have opened 1♠ fourth in hand, but with a higher number of them.

Also partner knows that opener had no way introducing a minor at a low level.

 

Rainer Herrmann

[rhm]

And how often do you think he will introduce that minor? Even if he has a singleton spade, introducing his minor would need a very good suit. If he has a doubleton, playing in spades is a no brainer.

 

That depends how many ♥ partner expects opener to have. If he correctly infers why opener did not reopen with a DBL, he will expect minor suit cards.

With a weak hand and only long ♠ opener would not have opened 1♠ fourth in hand, but with a higher number of them.

Also partner knows that opener had no way introducing a minor at a low level.

 

Rainer Herrmann

[vianu2]

All the posters play in that auction P-P-P-1SP / 2H- 2NT -as a fitted hand in spades?

I know lot of people not playing that .for some good reasons.

But anyway, this is a 4th opening and a partner who already passed 11+ points.

How many times should he pass until starting to share with us his collection ... btw 3 controls!

If you have in system 2NT fitted then you should have another bid for the natural 2NT. 2sp transfer to 2NT lol?

Is that an hypothetical discussion about S's bidding, in case N would not have what he has and then he passed right?

Is the N's pass forcing? (lol) . Do u open 12 or bad 13 count with spades in 4th? I think yes, np.

But do u accept as a normality to open 4th and let opponents play ? You, siting in N with 11 points, u accept to defend 2h in case partner opened bad 13?

Don't get me wrong. I don't know how to handle those things and it becomes very annoying. I'm a non expert/

[gwnn]

If he correctly infers why opener did not reopen with a DBL,

For example, a short minor suit is a good reason not to reopen with a DBL.

[JLOGIC]

For example, a short minor suit is a good reason not to reopen with a DBL.

 

Having a 7 card spade suit is a good reason too!

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I would not reopen with a double on the South hand. I would simply rebid 2♠.

 

North will probably bid 2NT and South will now have a difficult choice.

 

Rainer Herrmann

South:

N/S Vul

 

South

AKJT9x

void

QTxx

AJx

 

If you think this hand is too strong to open 2S in 4th seat, then 2S on the 2nd round I think should show this hand:

P-P-P-1S

2H-P-P-2S ... instead of a 3S-jump.

[gnasher]

All the posters play in that auction P-P-P-1SP / 2H- 2NT -as a fitted hand in spades?

I know lot of people not playing that .for some good reasons.

But anyway, this is a 4th opening and a partner who already passed 11+ points.

How many times should he pass until starting to share with us his collection ... btw 3 controls!

If you have in system 2NT fitted then you should have another bid for the natural 2NT. 2sp transfer to 2NT lol?

Is that an hypothetical discussion about S's bidding, in case N would not have what he has and then he passed right?

Is the N's pass forcing? (lol) . Do u open 12 or bad 13 count with spades in 4th? I think yes, np.

But do u accept as a normality to open 4th and let opponents play ? You, siting in N with 11 points, u accept to defend 2h in case partner opened bad 13?

Don't get me wrong. I don't know how to handle those things and it becomes very annoying. I'm a non expert/

 

North passes over 2♥ because he expects that South has short hearts, and will therefore reopen. That doesn't make the pass forcing, and it doesn't mean that North wants to defend 2♥ undoubled.

[xxhong]

I systematically play 3S to show a stronger hand about 8-8.5 tricks in hand. This is isn't very good without some help from partner, in which case he would usually raise. Also, I tend to balance less frequently than most. So my 2S usually shows a quite nice hand, in the range of a good 1S 1N 2S rebid or a weak 1S 1N 3S hand. With your listed hand, I open 2S at the 4th seat and open 3S at other seats.

2♠ seems an understatement with the South hand. We'd bid that with AKJ10xx - Qxxx xxx. I think a reasonable auction is:

 

1♠ 2♥ pass pass

3♠ pass 4♦ pass

4♥ pass 4♠ pass

pass pass

 

though either player might have taken stronger action on the last round.

[MrAce]

Interesting replies.

 

I disagree that not reopening with DBL implied ♥ void or minors in anyway.

 

Imo 2 or 3♠ rebids are very close. If this is a 2♠ it is clearly very top of 2♠ and if this is a 3♠ it is bottom of 3♠.

 

-2♠ has the advantage of going + more often, pd will usually (not always) make a move with hands that fits well and too many holes in minor suits in front of overcaller. And as Two4bridge said we did not open 2♠, we cant be so bad

 

-3♠ bid will allow to find game more often, will tell pd not to worry much about ♠ suit, and after all LHO overcalled our void, which is good news. Also we can expect to gain advantage from the lead.

 

One thing i would not do is to DBL with this, i can live with both 2 or 3 [spades.

[Yu18772]

I think that 3♠, or 2♠ depends on what you play as 2 level opening in 4th seat

- if is kind of stronger preempt (10-12/13), 2♠ might be enough, if this is strong than 3♠ would be better.

Dont like dbl with voids.