know your opponent before going to war

[gwnn]

vianu2, at least two people pointed out to you upthread that if you do it on all hands with 5-8 and balanced and you have done it with a partner more than once, it becomes an implicit partnership agreement. Your partner should alert it as 5-8 or 20-21, thereby enabling your opponents to double you on 16 counts.

 

This thread was about psychics, but when you admitted that you do it on all 5-8 hands, it brought the question of concealed partnership agreements, like it or not.

[gwnn]

No I think I am wrong about this, it does not have to come up to become a concealed partnership agreement. I think it's enough if your partner has read this thread, for example, where you wrote

 

And i really enjoy to use that not vulnerable 2NT every time i have in 3rd any balanced 5--8 hand.

 

If anyone on BBF who read this were to play with you, they should alert 2NT.

[hrothgar]

Gwnn u are outside the question, as usually. This is a topic about psychic bids.

 

No, it's about concealed partnership agreements and potentially about illegal systems.

 

Consider the following two "methods"

 

Method 1

Your 3rd seat, non-vulnerable 2NT opening shows either

 

20 - 22 HCP Balanced OR

5-8 HCP balanced

 

Method 2

Your 3rd seat, non-vulnerable 2NT opening shows 20 - 22 HCP Balanced HOWEVER

You psyche a 2NT opening each and every time that I get dealt a 5-8 HCP balanced hands

 

Let's assume that I dealt a million hands and had you bid these playing Method 1 and Method 2

You'd produce the identical auction regardless of what method you are playing.

 

Simply put, there is NO practical difference between the two sets of methods.

The only real difference is the way that you are chosing to describe what you're playing.

 

Moreover, the way that you are disclosing your methods is design to conceal relevent information from the opponents and skirt the convention regulations.

[vianu2]

vianu2, at least two people pointed out to you upthread that if you do it on all hands with 5-8 and balanced and you have done it with a partner more than once, it becomes an implicit partnership agreement. Your partner should alert it as 5-8 or 20-21, thereby enabling your opponents to double you on 16 counts.

 

This thread was about psychics, but when you admitted that you do it on all 5-8 hands, it brought the question of concealed partnership agreements, like it or not.

 

Gwnn i said "And i really enjoy to use that not vulnerable 2NT every time i have in 3rd any balanced 5--8 hand" yes

Where did I say i would really use it with same partner more than once?

I play with random partners.

Now u come with the next post and u say that "it's enough if your partner has read this thread, for example"?

Have no clue, don't u need to prove that has he read?

So if i'm going to Bermuda Bowl and i open there 2NT , u will call TD because i opened that threat and i informed my partner?

So funny. Yes You have nothing else to do (nothing is funny with my 2nt opening) u are concerned about the rules. I will make a concession for You : I promise if ill be your opponent at Bermuda Bowl I will not ever open 2NT. Now you can try something else there are lot of negative comments u can add to every post i made:)

[hrothgar]

Gwnn i said "And i really enjoy to use that not vulnerable 2NT every time i have in 3rd any balanced 5--8 hand" yes

but i didn't say i would really use with same partner more than once.

I play with random partners.

Now u come with the next post and u say that "it's enough if your partner has read this thread, for example"?

Have no clue, don't u need to prove that has he read?

So if i'm going to Bermuda Bowl and i open there 2NT , u will call TD because i opened that threat and i informed my partner?

So funny. Yes You have nothing else to do (nothing is funny with my 2nt opening) u are concerned about the rules. I will make a concession for You : I promise if ill be your opponent at Bermuda Bowl I will not ever open 2NT. Now can u try something else there are lot of negative votes u can add to every post i made:)

 

It's fine and dandy if you want to ***** around

No one's going to stop you

 

However, don't confuse this with playing bridge and don't expect folks to be very impressed with what is essentially juvenile clowning combined with bragging about how big your dick is... (This ridiculous "war" metaphor is the sort of thing one expects from a testosterone soaked 16 year old)

 

Don't get me wrong... I very much approve of "psyches" and have perpetrated my fair share of them; which is precisely why I find your behavior so nauseating.

 

Idiots like you who seem to feel the need to ***** around every third hand piss people off and make us all look bad.

[vianu2]

What a fabulous opportunity to see who u really are...

I know what is the level of a player after 2 boards , and the intellectual level of the other after two phrases.

[hrothgar]

What a fabulous opportunity to see who u really are...

I know what is the level of a player after 2 boards , and the intellectual level of the other after two phrases.

 

Did you consider the possibility that people are dumbing down the posts that they direct at you?

(You really might want to factor that into your analysis)

 

Alternatively, if you're quite convinced of the accuracy of your long distance armchair psychoanalysis, I'd be ever so amused to hear what you have to say...

[Elianna]

It's fine and dandy if you want to ***** around

No one's going to stop you

 

However, don't confuse this with playing bridge and don't expect folks to be very impressed with what is essentially juvenile clowning combined with bragging about how big your dick is... (This ridiculous "war" metaphor is the sort of thing one expects from a testosterone soaked 16 year old)

 

Don't get me wrong... I very much approve of "psyches" and have perpetrated my fair share of them which is precisely why I find your behavior so nauseating.

 

Idiots like you who seem to feel the need to ***** around every third hand piss people off and make us all look bad.

 

qft!

[vianu2]

Did you consider the possibility that people are dumbing down the posts that they direct at you?

(You really might want to factor that into your analysis)

 

Alternatively, if you're quite convinced of the accuracy of your long distance armchair psychoanalysis, I'd be ever so amused to hear what you have to say...

 

Factoring assumes as a first step to look for a sign.Factoring a positive quantity with a negative one, leads to a negative result that is much worse than the original, to say at least.

[matmat]

Factoring assumes as a first step to look for a sign.Factoring a positive quantity with a negative one, leads to a negative result that is much worse than the original, to say at least.

 

lol. nice try.

[hrothgar]

Factoring assumes as a first step to look for a sign.Factoring a positive quantity with a negative one, leads to a negative result that is much worse than the original, to say at least.

 

The MATLAB factor function checks whether the input is a scalar before checking sign...

[vianu2]

The MATLAB factor function checks whether the input is a scalar before checking sign...

 

Oh really? Then it will be a little hard to factoring in my analysis scalars..some older people, who are fitting with what u call spoiled, childish, or immature. Otherwise, MATLAB is used on parallel computing...who knows..

[matmat]

Oh really? Then it will be a little hard to factoring in my analysis some older people, who are fitting with what u call spoiled, childish, or immature. Otherwise, MATLAB is used on parallel computing...who knows..

 

 

I find it amusing that one of your first threads on the forums was an attempt to accuse someone of cheating, while this one brags about things that actually are bordering on cheating.

[PetteriLem]

Very risky psychs indeed. I kind of like the way you do it, when it works the opponents either want to cry or laugh.

I think it is interesting which length of suit is best for psyching. Less you have more partner is going to raise, but

on the other hand opponents are going to miss better fit. As long as you can stay below 3rd level the success rate is going

to be higher, because they cant double so easily. What comes to 2nt with 5-8bal, I think less is better, because opponents

are going to have game more likely and you are going down a lot anyway. Opening 1nt with the same hand could be a mistake.

[the hog]

Yes very funny and I"m glad u noticed that (pity u lost the essential) . I find it even more funny than your endless topics ( with puerile questions) i decided to never read because i just got bored.

 

If you decided not to read them, then how did you know they were puerile?

 

I suggest you read Justin's comments on your bidding and take them to heart.

[gwnn]

When the Hog and Justin agree, you know they're on to something!!

[vianu2]

If you decided not to read them, then how did you know they were puerile?

 

I suggest you read Justin's comments on your bidding and take them to heart.

 

Obviously I decide to not care about someone or something (regarding the bridge) after a friendly attempt to discover if there is anything of interest for me.

So i spent little time reading about 4,5 posts I didn't find anything there, just flat boards and two "not expert" players acting.

I don't need your suggestion to read the Justin's comments.

There was anything of interest for me on that topic, except Justin's comments . Easy to take them to heart.

[vianu2]

I find it amusing that one of your first threads on the forums was an attempt to accuse someone of cheating, while this one brags about things that actually are bordering on cheating.

 

Mat i don't know why are you feeling so strong that my auctions are "bordering on cheating". Perhaps I just not take bridge as seriously as you, and when i play i only play for entertainment (and just because i don't have the opportunity to do otherwise).

I agree that my auctions could spoil the pleasure of real players interested in getting a good result, tell me insane or idiot if u like..but please do not accuse me of cheating ok? It seems to me you are fixed on a idea.

[JLOGIC]

When the Hog and Justin agree, you know they're on to something!!

 

Too small of a sample to confirm this with empirical evidence :P

[JLOGIC]

I do have to say I agree with vianu that any kinds of suggestions or implications that he might be cheating based on this is really uncalled for. It is one thing if one of the best players in the world in an event like, say, the cavendish makes an outrageously bad psyche that works with other extenuating circumstances, but someone messing around on BBO and experimenting and then posting the ones that work is no evidence.

 

In fact, I think it is reasonable to try out psyches and see what works on BBO. That said, I was banned once for doing stuff like that years ago with 3 other friends (because we skewed the results for the field, obv a fair point and we shouldn't have done that), so it is important to remember that especially with random pard/opps doing this frequently is probably a bad idea.

[Rossoneri]

I do have to say I agree with vianu that any kinds of suggestions or implications that he might be cheating based on this is really uncalled for. It is one thing if one of the best players in the world in an event like, say, the cavendish makes an outrageously bad psyche that works with other extenuating circumstances, but someone messing around on BBO and experimenting and then posting the ones that work is no evidence.

 

In fact, I think it is reasonable to try out psyches and see what works on BBO. That said, I was banned once for doing stuff like that years ago with 3 other friends (because we skewed the results for the field, obv a fair point and we shouldn't have done that), so it is important to remember that especially with random pard/opps doing this frequently is probably a bad idea.

 

Well I'm pretty sure years ago, after doing that with your friends, you didn't come onto the forums to brag about it.

[vianu2]

Well I'm pretty sure years ago, after doing that with your friends, you didn't come onto the forums to brag about it.

Rossoneri whether u are sure or not about that, for me is irrelevant and it becomes annoying. There are lot of areas to experience and share your excellent bridge knowledge and wisdom . In addition, i just not comment here boards played on BBO, Can you enter this into your head?!

[jschafer]

You claim you psyche frequently for entertainment but I think you should take into consideration that you are ruining the game for at least 3 players at the expense of your entertainment. That doesn't even take into account the 15 other tables (or more in tournaments) which will get silly scores as a result of your bidding. I'm sure every person on this forum has been annoyed at the random moron on the other table going for something ridiculous like 7NTxx-8. Being bad at bridge and getting poor results is something people don't choose to do. However, deliberately psyching against poor players to ruin the game for everyone else is. Playing bridge is obviously not just about the scores but that doesn't mean you should go around psyching willy nilly because you feel like it.

 

It is no fun playing against someone who psyches every 3 hands and it is even less fun to play with them because this is a partneship game. On two of the hands you posted your partner was still unlimited, how many times did you end up in a terrible contract after getting raised before you got a good result? If you psyche a bit less you would be able to keep decent partners around for long enough to actually enjoy the game without having to resort to excessive psyching. Don't get me wrong, I am not against psyching, but I do it in moderation and not against weaker players than myself who are trying to enjoy the game.

 

 

EDIT: I also find it interesting how on the last hand your partner knew what everyone else scored right after the play. Considering you were playing a live tournament he must have beeen psychic!

[kenberg]

My only experience even remotely along these lines was at a club many years ago. I came w/o a partner and was paired with another guy. After a few boards I picked up a hand with five hearts and 25 highs. Partner, in first seat, opened 1♥. Pass on my right, I bid 4♥ since I was already beginning to catch on to his style. Ten tricks exactly with his three count and modest heart holding. He was thrilled by my brilliant catch and wanted to play again. I would rather eat nails.

 

I don't see the point of playing this way.

[matmat]

I do have to say I agree with vianu that any kinds of suggestions or implications that he might be cheating based on this is really uncalled for. It is one thing if one of the best players in the world in an event like, say, the cavendish makes an outrageously bad psyche that works with other extenuating circumstances, but someone messing around on BBO and experimenting and then posting the ones that work is no evidence.

 

In fact, I think it is reasonable to try out psyches and see what works on BBO. That said, I was banned once for doing stuff like that years ago with 3 other friends (because we skewed the results for the field, obv a fair point and we shouldn't have done that), so it is important to remember that especially with random pard/opps doing this frequently is probably a bad idea.

 

Selectively posting psychs that work and bragging about them seems like poor form. Admitting to routinely psyching on particular hands does imply concealed partnership agreements and, imo, questionable ethics.