"Cards" over preempt

[aguahombre]

[hv=pc=n&n=sajthakq763da753c&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1h4cdp]133|200[/hv]

 

Beyond your marked neg double level, but showing "cards" (not defined as "penalty", but certainly could be left in with nothing better to do). With those alleged agreements:

 

1. What is expected from South in the form of "cards" at these conditions? (upper/lower)

2. What do you do?

3. Form of scoring relevant? (Equal NV as shown)

 

Follow-up Q: How does one leave the question mark in for North when creating a hand?

[mikeh]

This is a great problem....solving these at the table seems, to me, to be one of the factors that separates the really good player from the average 'expert'...needless to say, this is an area where I know I need to improve B-)

 

I think that partner needs to have a decent 10 count or so: he expects to go plus should I pass with some 5332 minimum. KQxx xx KJxx Qxx would be, for me, a minimum.

 

I hate the North hand! Well, not really...what I hate is my uncertainty about what to do now.

 

I have slam ambitions, yet my diamond suit stinks and the auction suggests hearts won't break well for me.

 

I think I bid 5♣. I raise 5♦ to slam, and pass 5♥ (on the basis that if he can't bid 5♦, I have diamond cards to dispose of). I doubt that he will ever be able to bid 5♠ over 5♣ but if he does.....well...I'll get back to you.

[mfa1010]

I agree with mikeh. Except that I would raise 5♥ as well. I can see the worry about the possible diamond losers, but if we belong in 6♥, partner has no chance to play us for AKQxxx and all the first round controls. And also, I expect us to make 6♥ most of the time.

[Phil]

1. At minimum, I would expect a balanced 10-11, but it can be a LOT more. Since its a double of only 4♣, partner does not have heart support. I play my negative x's though 4♦ or 4♥, but in practice doubles at the 4 level aren't radically different between what we play.

 

2. Agree with 5♣, and I am also raising 5♥ to 6. Over 5♦, my hand is a MOUNTAIN, and I'm worth 6♣ (I hope partner can read I am looking for good trump and bid 7 with ♦KQxxx). Over 5♠, I'm sort of stuck - I suppose I'd raise to 6, but I might be convinced 5N (doubt about strain) is better.

 

3. Yes I think scoring is relevant. I really want to get to hearts if its right, but I can't do that with confidence in most continuations. I'll lose far fewer match points if I bid the lower-scoring slam if both make, than if I bid the wrong slam if 6♦ is making and 6♥ isn't.

 

(4). No idea.

[aguahombre]

O.K., I don't really want to give the full hand in a question like this. Assuming 5C is a good choice by opener, and that responder has something like the 11- pointer or a tad more:

 

Should his rebid over 5C with, 4-2-4-3 be 5H (having denied a real fit), 5D, or 5S? I am remembering Hargreaves' statement that he does not expect 5S, but he didn't say whether it would show more than 4.

 

With 4-2-4-3 and an extra bullet above expectation, does he then have to bid 5N himself for choice of slams?

[mfa1010]

With 4-2-4-3 and an extra bullet above expectation, does he then have to bid 5N himself for choice of slams?

Yes that sounds like a good idea. The alternative is to underbid and unilaterally focus on some strain when he really has no preference.

[benlessard]

The important point in these hand is to determine if we are forcing to slam whatever happen or not and doing it right now not after bidding 5C. If we want to play 6 without thinking about 7 or stopping at the 5 level 5Nt is the proper bid it will suggest 3 suits (or 6H/4S)and is simpler + it doest scream a void as loud as 5C. Partner will bid 5D/5S with bid 5 card suit will bid 6H with Hx in H and will bid 6C with none of the above. IMO its likely partner got 5S here and it would pain me to play 6h/6D going down while 6S is cold. If you are unsure about 5H/6h than 5C is a must but you must be willing to respect partner signoff at 5H.

 

5C will often be suggesting only 2 suits or solid H looking for 5,6 or 7. (also im not even sure what 5S over 5C mean here) So that why its betters to bid 5Nt directly if you are not looking for 7.

 

Direct 5H should be solid H and asking for a club control imo.

 

Here i think its clear that we dont want to stop in 5 so is this hand worth a look for 7 ? Not at imps and at MP i could go either way.

 

So for me i bid 5Nt at imps but consider 5C ok at MP too.

 

 

Ps I play that 4D by opener is forcing I think its better but im not 100% sure.

[ahydra]

Partner should have "cards" as per the thread title - perhaps 10 HCP upwards. I wouldn't be surprised to find some of those in clubs though, so I'm agreeing with 5C and then raising 5D or 5S to 6. I'd probably raise 5H to 6 as well (depending on how I was feeling at the time :)).

 

ahydra