Hanoi5 Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Team match, all red, after two passes your RHO opens 3♦, you hold: ♠K8xx♥AKQ87♦K7x♣A What would you do? What would you do over a 4♦ pre-empt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Double strikes me as very dangerous (too great a chance that partner will bid clubs) 3NT has a certain sick appeal.We have a Diamond stop. The hearts could very well run. However, when 3N goes wrong, it goes very wrong. I'm going to make a prosaic 3♥ bid (even though I would dearly love a sixth heart) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyman Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 3N for me, but I'm not real happy about it. 4-any is too much of a position for me, and 3M is just too wimpy for me with this hand. Wouldn't take much to convince me X is best, but I have no idea what to do over 5C, so that's out for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mck4711 Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 4♦ for me: take out for the majors. 3NT looks without a long running suit not that good.X looks dangerous 'cos of 4♣ from partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semeai Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Over 3♦ I double. If partner bids 4♣, I'll bid 4♥. It's true I feel quite unhappy over 5♣. Over 4♦ I'll just bid 4♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 DBL then bid, 4♥ over 4♣. 4♦ over 3♥/♠ If u change my hand to Kxxx AKxxx KQx A then i would bid 3 NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyman Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 DBL then bid, 4♥ over 4♣. 4♦ over 3♥/♠ If u change my hand to Kxxx AKxxx KQx A then i would bid 3 NT. And over 5C? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Have to say double, I think. I like wide range overcalls but 3♥ is simply too little on this hand. He will pass 3♥ on many hands where we belong in game and even more hands where we belong in spades. Yes, we may live to regret this....I don't like our choices over partner's 5♣, but all calls carry risks and our responsibility is to weigh them and decide accordingly. Bidding 3♥ carries enormous risks, as does 3N, compared to double. Double loses only when partner bids 5♣ (I pass 5♣...it might even make). We can handle all calls partner makes other than the unlikely 5♣...unlikely because partner didn't preempt in clubs (which negates a small part of the family of hands warranting 5♣ now) and probably doesn't have a lot of high cards (we have 19, RHO probably has 6+). I intend to raise a major to game, and to correct 4♣ to 4♥. I'd almost consider 4♦ but I'd rather be in a 5-2 heart fit on this hand than a 4-3 spade fit....besides, I'd like to reserve 4♦ for a purer hand-type for a variety of reasons. Edit: i did a quick simulation, admittedly imprecise.....gave partner no more than 11 hcp (and rejected a few of the resulting hands) and rho 7 diamonds with no more than 10 hcp and no 4 card major. I ran 100 hands and rejected half a dozen. I was looking only for hands where we get to 5♣ and we had a better spot. I found only 3 hands in total where we get to a failing 5♣ and we weren't making 3N or 4M on 2 of them, tho in one case we'd clearly be doubled in 5♣ and not enjoying it very much. I did assume that partner would not bid clubs with a 4 card major, which some may find objectionable. I wasn't trying to be precise...i wanted an impression of how frequently the 'nightmare' 5♣ response would happen...it happened about 6 times, but on 3 of them, it made, so I didn't worry about those ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 And over 5C? Pd is coming from pass, but there can still be hands he could bid 5♣, though i think it is unlikely or less frequent. If what you are asking me is "do i believe DBL is a perfect bid ?" No i dont honestly. But i can come up with hands partner may hold more frequently than hands that jumps to 5♣ which makes other choices look bad. 3NT is bad with only one stopper, and partner will pass with wide majority of hands, including 5 card majors. Because 3NT bid itself can be made with wide range and shape of hands. 3♥ bid has the disadvantage of 1- Missing game due to our extras 2-Kxxx ♠ is a value which makes our game chances much higher when combined with 19 hcp, which is not a common strength of an overcall (although i do it more t han normal people do, but not this hand) 4♦ would not even cross my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyman Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Ok, so you guys are passing 5C. That was kind of my impression too. I don't have a 5-red call certainly. I'm not disagreeing, just trying to make my own mind up still. Definitely worried about one of these 3325 hands. or 2326. Pard would need a decent suit to open up 3C vul, so I'm actually feeling really bad now if he bids 5C. My argument for 3N I guess is that I can probably duck LHO out of diamonds and hook into the safe hand in one of the majors if he's got an entry in the other. Looks like I've got 2 in the minors and need 7 in the majors. If he's got as little as the ace (or QJ with an onside ace, or ...) of spades and HJx (or xxx and 3-2 hearts), we're making 3N (against the likely diamond lead and continuation -- I won't even think about what happens if LHO leads a club!). So I don't think 3N is such a disaster -- hey, it's only 9 tricks! But you guys are super hesitant to bid it, so I'm a little worried that my judgment is off. Certainly if p is 4=1=3=5, I want to be in spades (although even then, he'd need only AQJx or AQxx and 3-2 or AQ10x and a guess or QJxx, HJ, and spades 3-2 or HJ & Q10xx and spades AJx onside, or ...). I think this is a really good problem actually. I'm still not completely swayed to violate Hamman's rule here yet, but I'm extremely interested in a sim if someone can come up with appropriate parameters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 Ok, so you guys are passing 5C. That was kind of my impression too. I don't have a 5-red call certainly. ....So I don't think 3N is such a disaster -- hey, it's only 9 tricks! But you guys are super hesitant to bid it, so I'm a little worried that my judgment is off.... No, 3 NT is not such a disaster at all, and my 2nd choice. And i don't think your judgement is off at all. It is, as you stated, a good problem. 3NT can easily be the winning bid. After all, we all are bidding a very strong hand after a 3 level preempt. I personally thought, when choosing DBL, this would optimize my chances in long run due to keeping more number of games available in picture. I thought starting DBL there are a lot of things that will make me happy to hear from pd and only 1 thing ( a jump to 5♣ by a passed hand ) that would make me regret my choice. I am happy to hear 3♥ or 3♠ or 3NT, and i have a decent hand to make another bid over 4♣. I am also happy if pd for whatever reasons believes that passing this DBL is good for us. I maybe off with my expectations, but neiher your 3 NT or my DBL is a disaster bid imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank0 Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 3NT over 3♦4♥ over 4♦ If my partner agree to play optional or penalty double at any of this position, I double. Sorry can anyone delete this post for me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank0 Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 3NT over 3♦4♥ over 4♦ If my partner agrees to play optional or penalty double at any of this position, I double Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Double for me. This is too good for a 3H bid in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 3NT over 3♦4♥ over 4♦ If my partner agree to play optional or penalty double at any of this position, I double. Sorry can anyone delete this post for me? You can click on "edit" in your post and delete it yourself and say "deleted due to double post" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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