how do you open this, and why

[scoob]

playing 2/1, favourable vuln.

 

[hv=s=sqxxhxxdaqxxckjxx]133|100|[/hv]

[pclayton]

Well let me be the first to say that I pass this, even at favorable, unless I'm playing a 12-14 NT. I guarantee that I will be in the minority at any tournament, and probably on this bulletin board, and it won't always work out, but in the long run, I think its the best action.

 

KNR calls it 11.6, for what its worth.

[the hog]

Pretty standard 1C opening in any system unless playing weak NT. Passing this is a losing action.

[pbleighton]

1D for me. With 10 of the 12 points in the 4 card suits, the hand isn't so bad.

 

Of course, it *should* be opened 1NT :P

 

Peter

[jtfanclub]

In any system but 2/1, I open 1C.

 

I prefer more solid openings in 2/1.

[whereagles]

Not the most exciting 12 points, but nonetheless a standard opening bid in today's game :P

[EricK]

Pretty standard 1C opening in any system unless playing weak NT. Passing this is a losing action.

I wonder...

 

If you are not playing a weak NT, then this sort of hand has to be opened with 1 of a minor.

 

This certainly makes it easier for LHO to overcall on a number of major suit hands on which they would be unable to open. Do the gains outweigh the losses?

 

The hand certainly has less going for it than eg ♠KJxx ♥AQxx ♦xx ♣Qxx

 

Eric

[the hog]

"This certainly makes it easier for LHO to overcall on a number of major suit hands on which they would be unable to open. Do the gains outweigh the losses?"

 

This approach is far too negative Eric; I could be hit by a bus when I am crossing the road, but that does not stop me from crossing it. Pass this hand and you will find it hard to convince partner you have these values later in the auction. If pd opens 1S you may survive with gadgets like Drury. If pd opens 1H what do you do? Bid 2m? Do you now blame pd for passing a 13 pt opener with no wonderful fit for you? Another 3NT gurgles down the drain.

 

Maybe you will find some French and US experts passing this as some of these are very conservative in their openings; those players who play a 4 handed rather than 2 handed game will open.

[mikestar]

In 2/1 or SAYC I will pass this one. If my NT range includes 12 HCP, I will open 1N. I played a conservaive Precision with a 13-16 NT for years and got more good results than bad passing balanced 12's. Yes, once in a while you will miss a game, but you'll also get a lot of +200's on defense, sometimes because they refuse to take the possibility of you being this strong into account.

 

BTW, least anyone think I always advocate conservatism, note that I will open 2S at both vulnerable with KQTxx xxx xxx xx and often blast to slams.

[the hog]

Maybe I am being really thick here, but perhaps someone could explain to me why you don't want to open this playing 2/1?

 

I can understand you not opening 1 Major on an 11 count, as a 2/1 bid may get you overboard, but surely in a sequence like 1C 1M 1N you can checkback with 2C to ask for range and support; I am afraid I don't get it.

 

Ron.

[jtfanclub]

Maybe I am being really thick here, but perhaps someone could explain to me why you don't want to open this playing 2/1?

 

I can understand you not opening 1 Major on an 11 count, as a 2/1 bid may get you overboard, but surely in a sequence like 1C 1M 1N you can checkback with 2C to ask for range and support; I am afraid I don't get it.

 

Ron.

I've just found that people who play 2/1 prefer solid openings. While it's true that, unlike 1♦-2♣, there is no GF bid over 1C, that doesn't mean that I use a different range for it.

[luke warm]

i'll admit it never entered my mind to pass this until i read all the people who say they would pass... i'd of course open it 1nt every day of the year... while it's true that a 1D bid doesn't do a lot to preempt a major suit overcall, it does at least direct a possible defense... and i doubt if passing will do any more to stop a major bid ...

 

the only good comes when your holding surprises the ops... but i just think more good can come from bidding this than passing it, especially if you can open 1nt

[Flame]

First i advice you not to pass, even if it thoreticaly right to pass , there are two adv in opening, first your bidding system is best define after you open, second your opponents system is best define when they open, and third (lol those first two were just one) bid openning with the field is better.

Now 1c/1d ? i think there are advance to each, more important that you will agree with partner on it.

Edited September 28, 2004 by Flame

[helene_t]

I don't know in which system this hand should be opened 1♣. Although Bergen opens 1♣ with 4-4 minors if clubs are much better than diamonds, I see no reason not to open this hand 1♦. Partner can support diamonds slightly easier than clubs in case of an overcall. If you play Hardy's 2/1, you play Walsh so partner is not allowed to bid a 4-card diamond before a four-card major if you open 1♣. And sometimes you have an easier response to partner's negative double if you open 1♦, although it hardly matters in this case.

 

Given the vulnerabilty, I might open this hand 1♠ in 3rd seat. It's only half a psyche so I'm allowed to do it four times even when playing under psyche quotas. :P

[EricK]

"This certainly makes it easier for LHO to overcall on a number of major suit hands on which they would be unable to open. Do the gains outweigh the losses?"

 

This approach is far too negative Eric; I could be hit by a bus when I am crossing the road, but that does not stop me from crossing it. Pass this hand and you will find it hard to convince partner you have these values later in the auction. If pd opens 1S you may survive with gadgets like Drury. If pd opens 1H what do you do? Bid 2m? Do you now blame pd for passing a 13 pt opener with no wonderful fit for you? Another 3NT gurgles down the drain.

 

Maybe you will find some French and US experts passing this as some of these are very conservative in their openings; those players who play a 4 handed rather than 2 handed game will open.

I would certainly open it. But I would like to open it with 1NT! I can remember hands like this where a 1NT opening led to a good result, but a 1m opening would have led to their finding a major part score. I suspect that a Pass might have led to the hands being thrown in (again for a good score).

 

But I would be interested if anyone could demonstrate whether in "real-life" bridge, opening balanced 12 point hands without a major suit does gain or lose IMPS/MPS.

 

Perhaps someone with BridgeBrowser or equivalent can do that.

 

Eric

[sceptic]

I have a lot to learn, 1 diamond opener I thought this is a rule of 20 opener?

[inquiry]

Rule of 20 - I woud open, Zar points I wuuld not. Playing weak 1NT I would open, playing roth stone I would not.

 

If I open i would open 1C, not 1D.Why?

 

If partner bids 1D over 1C, I will bid 2D

If parntre bids 1H ove 1C, I will bid 1NT

If partner bids 1S ove 1C, I will bid 2S

 

If I open 1D, I will not be bidding 2C so, why open the higher suit? I have a better chance of finding our minor suit fit with a 1C opening bid.. .

[hrothgar]

playing 2/1, favourable vuln.

 

[hv=s=sqxxhxxdaqxxckjxx]133|100|[/hv]

I'd (reluctantly) open 1♦ playing 2/1

The hand is a piece of *****, but the benefits of opening outweigh the costs.

 

MUCH happier to be dealt this is playing a weak NT system...

[whereagles]

Anyone who lobbies for precision or 8-12 openings systems is not entitled to advice a pass on this hand ;)

[flytoox]

1D. 1st question, do i open? yes. this 12hcp hand is not bad. u can rebid 1N over 1H, raise to 2s over 1s. over 2c raise to 3c, min but good spt.

 

2nd question which suit to open? i prefer 1d. Fred said a lot about this question.

[junyi_zhu]

playing 2/1, favourable vuln.

 

Dealer: ????? Vul: ???? Scoring: Unknown

♠ Qxx ♥ xx ♦ AQxx ♣ KJxx

This is a 1D opening. I'd pass if you change the hand to xx Qxx AQxx KJxx.

Qxx in spade is a plus feature. Even if you play 2/1 and solid openings, you still should open it, because this hand has no wasted HCPs and has reasonable spades. Partner would invited with so so 12 HCP and would bid a game with good 12 which you don't really mind. 1D is clearly better than 1C because you can rebid 2C if LHO overcalls 1H and partner doubles. If you open 1C, you have no good rebid.

[inquiry]

Perhaps someone with BridgeBrowser or equivalent can do that.

Not entirely sure what it proves, but I looked through a half a million hand records at a one of a minor opening bid wit the following requirements

 

1) exactly 12 hcp

2) 2 or 3 spades

3) 2 or 3 hearts

4) At least 3 diamonds

5) At least 3 clubs

 

this allows for

2-2-6-3, 2-2-5-4, 2-2-4-5, 2-2-3-6,

3-2-5-3, 3-2-4-4, 3-2-3-5,

2-3-5-3, 2-3-4-4, 2-3-3-5,

3-3-4-3, 3-3-3-4

 

Out of this 1.5 million hands, there was 30499 hands opened 1C or 1D that fall into these requirements (including the opeoning bid).. this is 2.1%. The average result was +0.046 imps for opening the minor, but only 48.9% matchpoints

 

But, we don't know what the average result was on these hand if the guy with 12 points had simply passed. But there are the numbers for you...

 

Since the request was from Bridgebrowser, that is what I used. If you like looking at bridge hands, you owe it to youreself to consider purchaing it, it really is quite amazing.

 

Ben

[goodwintr]

If you open the bidding on Qxx xx AQxx KJxx, then presumably you drive to game as responder with KJxx AQxx xx Qxx -- proving the validity of the ancient formula, "an opening bid plus an opening bid produces down one." Add a few tens to the hands and game prospects improve markedly; and while I don't claim to know the method, I'd bet the Rubens-Kaplan calculator would make either hand an opening bid if you give it a couple of tens.

 

As has often been said here, one hand (or one pair of hands) doesn't prove anything. I would only suggest that dogmatism is misplaced when it comes to deciding what to do with these marginal cases (and the original problem hand is marginal, in my view).

 

My partnerships would pass the original hand, because we like to have 2 1/2 quick-tricks when we open a balanced 12-count. But we certainly don't claim that we must be right and the openers must be wrong.

 

TLGoodwin

[Fluffy]

I have rarelly played wea NT but... isn´t it 12-14 range?

 

isn´t that the same range as 1♦-1X-1NT when playing strong NT?

 

Then what why do you consider this different range playing different systems?.

[EricK]

I have rarelly played wea NT but... isn´t it 12-14 range?

 

isn´t that the same range as 1♦-1X-1NT when playing strong NT?

 

Then what why do you consider this different range playing different systems?.

A weak NT is a semi-pre-emptive weapon.

 

If I open 1NT then LHO has to come in at the two level. That allows us to steal a lot of part scores, and also forces opps to play a lot of inferior part scores.

 

If I open the same hand 1m, then I do alright if the bidding gets back to me without the opponents intervening, but I am less happy in the cases where I have allowed an easy 1M overcall.

 

I would say that at IMPS you have got to open these hands whatever the system because of the few missed games that would occur otherwise. But at MPs, where so many points hinge on part score hands, it might not be such a good idea without a major suit or two (unless you can bypass both majors with a weak NT).

 

Eric