vianu2 Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Your lack of stopper in ♥ perhaps ? Anyway, u are not gonna go too far in A/E forums with this 4♣ promissing 3 cards ♠ idea.. The openers who are missing the heart stopper and the spade fit seems to have that funny holding 9+ cards on minors and in that clear misfit they are bidding on the 4 level to help partner to guess what to do now, with the Dave's holding....q10xxx xx kxxx xx :D :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 WoW!!And what is your intention with 4♣? Afraid that opp's will stay at 3h and make it? Or that 4♣ is forcing now and asking some shape or controls or ...If my 4♠ is massive overbid then how is that funny 1♠ opening stop 800? http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/47129-atb/I give up . If u ever bid 4♣ with that hand then we just cannot play together.Stay good bid on hcps ignore opps (think they are not sane) so dunno ask why are u missing games...4 clubs is natural and forcing, and I'm pleased we can't play together if you don't think that. For example if you happen to play a 4♣ opener as showing hearts, why can't you have a natural 4♣ opener here. btw what'sIf my 4♠ is massive overbid then how is that funny 1♠ opening stop 800? http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/47129-atb/ in English ? That constructive auction 1cl-1h-1sp with q10xxx xx kxxx xx makes me understand your responses to t/o X And of course 4sp here is pretty nice contract unless U want to defend 4h (and do u have guns?). 4♠ seems to have 4 top losers if the trumps break, and if you're doubled, they're not breaking. Stay good bid on hcps ignore opps (think they are not sane) so dunno ask why are u missing games... I don't mind missing games that are going off against a game that's not certain to make, even worse case give pd Qxxxx, 10x, KJxx, xx where you're 2 or more off in 4♠ and they're not making 3♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vianu2 Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Oh well!is not my problem that u open 1♣ with hands that can be opened with 4♣ :P In that case u didn't explain what is the gain of your 4♣ bidding now?Except your opps will get extra info's and may try even a slam? ( let's say 3h is invitational? ).In english, 1 ♠ stop 800 means "partner i'm sorry but i didn't know u have only xx in ♠ pity LHO got A10xx...and RHO had a balancing with X...). I opened 1♠ to write 110 but i got 800 what a big deal...next time i may go down less...You again ignore opps bidding and you think they only make pics at the table.How often will happen there that 3♠ makes and 4♥ No?? You can generate some boards... Edited. I had considered my options with yourkq10xxx xx jxx xx in which case i simply bid 1cl-1h-2spand with Dave's hand X t/o seems to me more appropriate than 1sp (forcing bid)...if u really want to bid here!Having akxxx and anything else i feel comfortable in my 4sp (when opps have heart fit and no spade quality do u really think they would X you? and do u think you go down -2 with this dummy?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeegan Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 :P wtp? You got to a sensible 4♠ contract on very spirited auction with 27 HCP and some known and obvious wastage in the red suits. Sure, 6♣ is better, but that would involve North bidding 4♣ over 3♥. You don't seriously recommend that??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Edited. I had considered my options with yourkq10xxx xx jxx xx in which case i simply bid 1cl-1h-2spHaving akxxx and anything else i feel comfortable in my 4sp (when opps have heart fit and no spade quality do u really think they would X you? and do u think you go down -2 with this dummy?)In most of the civilised world, 2♠ is a fit jump in competition, particularly if you play a 4 card club as I do, if you play it weak then yes you can bid it here. If opps double, it's going off because somebody has Q109x or similar, but it's more likely to drift off undoubled when 4♥ wasn't making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vianu2 Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 :P wtp? You got to a sensible 4♠ contract on very spirited auction with 27 HCP and some known and obvious wastage in the red suits. Sure, 6♣ is better, but that would involve North bidding 4♣ over 3♥. You don't seriously recommend that???I don't recommend anything but when i'm in doubt i ask some pros.One of them just told me that he would bid with the N's hand 4♥ and didn't ever think to just raise 3♠.Of course he said that 4♣ here doesn't have a spade support (only a jump in clubs shows spade support). I still disagree with that point of view but just because i'm not going to open at the first level offensive hands having less than 2 defenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytoox Posted August 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Hi，4H after 3H? That is an overbid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveharty Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 That constructive auction 1cl-1h-1sp with q10xxx xx kxxx xx makes me understand your responses to t/o X :D ...I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean, are you suggesting that bidding 1S with this hand is unusually aggressive? I would say that passing with this hand, when you have five points and a chance to show a five card major at the one level, is unusually timid. I'm not sure what you mean by "3H is invitational for you?"--of course I don't play that 3H in the given auction is invitational, I have either a cuebid or a transfer advance of partner's overcall to take care of that kind of hand. I don't know anyone who would play 3H there as invitational. As for 1S being "forcing", well yes, I don't expect partner to pass it, but it doesn't show any extra strength over the 1H overcall. In fact, I would suggest that it could be made with quite a weak hand, because if the auction threatens to get competitive, it's advantageous to bid your suit/s if at all possible (especially holding spades). I couldn't decipher the last part of your post, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vianu2 Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 I really enjoy that .So i got the point.1. Dave bids 1♠ having q10xx xx kxxx xx2. 3h is sort of preempting hand3. Mr Ace overcals 4cl having xx xx Ax(x) kqjxxx(x) So E has about 20 hcps but he just overcaled 1♥Conclusion:Mr Ace will be in trouble if he plays with Dave :D :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dake50 Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 5C not 4S by South. That gets partner excited about his clubs for slam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveharty Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 I really enjoy that .So i got the point.1. Dave bids 1♠ having q10xx xx kxxx xx2. 3h is sort of preempting hand3. Mr Ace overcals 4cl having xx xx Ax(x) kqjxxx(x) So E has about 20 hcps but he just overcaled 1♥Conclusion:Mr Ace will be in trouble if he plays with Dave :D :DYour logic eludes me. Nowhere did MrAce say he would do any such thing; he simply said, quite correctly, that the auction 1C-(1H)-1S-(3H)-4C did got guarantee spade support, which you had claimed was the case, in a post where you erroneously stated that auction was analogous to the unobstructed auction 1C-1S-4C (the standard meaning about which, I think, you are slightly confused; at least where I'm from, it shows FOUR spades, not three). As far MrAce "being in trouble" if he played with me, I have kibitzed him a few times and he has always struck me as a good player and a fine partner. I would be happy to play with him, and if we did so, I would expect us to do just fine (with him carrying me, of course :) ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 The openers who are missing the heart stopper and the spade fit seems to have that funny holding 9+ cards on minors and in that clear misfit they are bidding on the 4 level to help partner to guess what to do now, with the Dave's holding....q10xxx xx kxxx xx :D :D Opener does not need 9+ cards ♣, and lack of ♥ stopper doesnt mean he is short in ♥. x xxx KQ AKxxxxx is plenty, due to 1♥-3♥ bid by opponents. This doesnt only indicates ♥ shortness but also some number of ♣s in pd's hand. All he needs is an Ace to make 5♣. And even if he has a stopper, such as x Axx Kx KQJxxxx 3NT is an awful bid when knowing pd is short in ♥. Even when your pd has ♣ A or any other ace you still can not make 3 NT, when 5♣ is cold. If your pd has 2 aces then you make 3 NT but miss 6♣. Which by the way, you would pass 3♥ and goes to pd who holds Axxxx x Qxxx xxx. I find this laughable. Other posters are correct that 4♠ is a massive overbid imo. Thats fine if you want to overbid, you just will be known as a crazy bidder. But if you insist that 4♣ promises ♠ fit in this auction, you will only continue emberassing yourself. When someone starts to defend his/her own nonsense, it usually gets worse for them. The more they try to get away with it, the more they sink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Well i hope u agree that i have a 4♠ bid and not 3♠.And i didn't miss the 3♥ bidding i just don't rebid 4♣ with no spade support because is out of sense! Who tells me that we don't have 3NT to play? My partner can have a monster when he bid 1♠. Why do i need to show my 7 cards on level 4?Why do i open 1♣ if i have only clubs? What do i miss? No, you not have a 4S bid. 4S is an overbid. 3S is pk.4C does not promise a S fit. I don't know where that comes from. "I don't recommend anything but when i'm in doubt i ask some pros.One of them just told me that he would bid with the N's hand 4♥ and didn't ever think to just raise 3♠." What sort of pro? Probably not a bridge pro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rduran1216 Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Ah, these are the BBO world class/expert players I've heard so much about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vianu2 Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Ah, these are the BBO world class/expert players I've heard so much about.I see what you mean but no:( that "pro" is not world class on BBo . Is an old experienced USA player who gives bridge lessons and teach more systems than i ever heard, and that's why i said pro..maybe i was wrong about the meaning of "pro". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyman Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 teach more systems than i ever heard found the problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxhong Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 4C to show a long club suit and spade fit is certainly very playable if you play double to show extra values, no spade support and doubt in 3NT. Still, it's not standard. Also, it's kind of rare. Usually you need a rather strong hand to force to game facing a free bid at one level. Anyway, the hands you want to bypass 3NT to bid 4C naturally are also very rare. I don't really think this topic really deserves a lot of discussions. Still, any bids other than 3S are obvious overbids for this hand. I really enjoy that .So i got the point.1. Dave bids 1♠ having q10xx xx kxxx xx2. 3h is sort of preempting hand3. Mr Ace overcals 4cl having xx xx Ax(x) kqjxxx(x) So E has about 20 hcps but he just overcaled 1♥Conclusion:Mr Ace will be in trouble if he plays with Dave :D :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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