3-cd limit raise in SAYC

[shevek]

[hv=pc=n&s=sA85hk76d74ckt854&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1hp2cp2dp]133|200[/hv]

 

You play vanilla SAYC so

no forcing or semi-forcing 1NT, no criss-cross raise or strong 2/1, etc.

You still like a limit raise to guarantee 4 trumps so you start with 2♣.

 

Over opener's 2NT, you planned 3♥. Is this non-forcing?

 

Over 2♦, is it normal to play 3♥ now as forcing? (2/1 then jump preference)

If you don't think this hand is worth game, is it okay to bid 2♥ now?

[whereagles]

In this particular auction 3♥ now is forcing in most systems.

 

However, I think that in sayc 2♥ would show Hx support and 3♥ an invite. Others can perhaps elaborate on this.

[helene_t]

sayc has 3-card limit raises so I suppose now 3♥ would be a slam invite and 2♥ would suggest doubleton support and be nonforcing. I wouldn't call it a major violation of SAYC to bid 2♣ followed by 2♥ with this hand, though :)

[Hanoi5]

1♥-3♥

 

1Maj-2m

2x-2Maj=10-11 with only 2 cards

 

1Maj-2m

2x-3M=16+ 3+ cards fit

[hrothgar]

The following is probably unduely influence by my experiences with Blue Club, however, i strongly prefer a style in which a 2/1 establishes an unambiguous force to 2N. The obvious correlary is that

 

1♥ - 2♣

2♦ - 2♥

 

is now forcing. You can then preference back to hearts to show the three card limit raise.

 

I think that trying to drop dead in 2M following a 2/1 causes a lot more problems than it solves.

[ArtK78]

The ACBL SAYC system booklet specifically states that a 2/1 followed by a jump raise of opener's major to the three level is game forcing - responder should make a direct limit raise of opener's major suit with three cards and invitational values.

[aguahombre]

The ACBL SAYC system booklet specifically states that a 2/1 followed by a jump raise of opener's major to the three level is game forcing - responder should make a direct limit raise of opener's major suit with three cards and invitational values.

Yep. And, this is consistent with a thread last year (2009?) where AWM cleared that point up for us. 2/1 followed by 2M is definitely a 2-card stall with about 11 ish.

[Bbradley62]

Over opener's 2NT, you planned 3♥. Is this non-forcing?

Over 2♦, is it normal to play 3♥ now as forcing? (2/1 then jump preference)

If you don't think this hand is worth game, is it okay to bid 2♥ now?

In SAYC, 1♥-2♣-2NT shows extras and is game forcing. Yes to the other two questions.

The ACBL SAYC system booklet specifically states that a 2/1 followed by a jump raise of opener's major to the three level is game forcing - responder should make a direct limit raise of opener's major suit with three cards and invitational values.

Yes, although it's conceivable he has 4 hearts to go with his 5+ clubs and thought that 2♣ was a better response than either Jacoby 2N or splinter.

Yep. And, this is consistent with a thread last year (2009?) where AWM cleared that point up for us. 2/1 followed by 2M is definitely a 2-card stall with about 11 ish.

Two qualifiers:

First, if OP and partner have an agreement that 1♥-3♥ shows four hearts, then they need a second bid in the given sequence, and the 2♥ rebid seems the most reasonable. That would mean that 1♥-2♣-2♦-2♥ shows 2-3♥ and game invitational values.

Second, many responding hands with invitational values and 2 hearts will include spade stoppers, and those hands would bid 1♥-2♣-2♦-2N. So, the 2♥ rebid shows a preference for playing hearts over NT.

[Bbradley62]

Note: BBO's Stock Convention Cards include one called simply "SAYC" which is has step-by-step explanations of bidding sequences.