rduran1216 Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 [hv=pc=n&n=sakt752haq9dk3ca8&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=p]133|200[/hv] just meat and potatoes 2/1, what do you open? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 2c non expert but easy 1) lots of controls2) lots of hcp3) roughly 3.5 loser hand4) long major, decent suit----- If I open 1s ihave no good rebid.------- 2c wtp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 1♠. I hope to get more info that way, hopefully that info won't be Pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbodell Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 With a good partner I open 1♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 1♠ wtp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 2NT Of course 1♠ is standart. But lets try to predict the problems; He said 2/1 1♠--2x response, no problem. 1♠-1NT response and we are lack of rebid, at least a suitable one. I know most will say how they have gazilli or special agreements to show it, but as usual i will try to answer this as if this hand is mine and i am playing with one of the forum posters with a simple agreement of 2/1 0314 capp std card... 1♠--1NT2♣/2♦/2♥ would be out of question for me.2NT also due the range it shows.3♣/3♦/3♥ perhaps for some people except than me3♠, no way3NT most logical among all others, but has the danger of wrong siding the contract and/or some confusion if pd bids something like 4♠. Did he have 3card ♠ and a weaker hand than 2♠ ? Did he have 10-12 3 card raise ? Other alternatives are opening 2♣ or 2 NT, both also has flaws. I would have to choose between opening 2NT and opening 1♠ then 3NT. Personally i would choose 2NT. At least if our final destination is 3NT we play it from where it is supposed to be played, 2NT also shows my precise strength compared to other options. The flaw is not the 6th ♠ for me, finding pd with some ♠s only makes me happy in 3 NT. The flaw is we may miss a slam in ♠, but with the agreements i have with pd, which is almost nothing, i doubt i would be able to bid that slam confidently anyway, had i opened 1♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 It's funny how this sort of near-2♣ 1-suiters come up over and over, isn't it? Guess what? That's why some systems have specific bids for these hands. In 2/1 you either open 2♣ or mess up the auction with wierd 3-card rebids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 (edited) It's funny how this sort of near-2♣ 1-suiters come up over and over, isn't it? In 2/1 you either open 2♣ or mess up the auction with wierd 3-card rebids.So true. But I'm afraid I'll open 1♠ and make a "weird" GF 3♣! jump-shift ( may be artificial ) over 1NTF! I believe Mikeh ( from last week ) has a system for this ( using the 3C! rebid ) desribed many years ago in BW called : Jeff's Magic Elixir . Edit: http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/47047-1s-1n%3B-2h-3h/ Edited July 27, 2011 by TWO4BRIDGE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flem72 Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 called : Jeff's Magic Elixir . Edit: http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/47047-1s-1n%3B-2h-3h/ To the same effect, see also Eisenberg 3C and/or Meckstroth Adjunct. Regards and Happy Trails, Scott NeedhamBoulder, Colorado, USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 To the same effect, see also Eisenberg 3C and/or Meckstroth Adjunct. Regards and Happy Trails, Scott NeedhamBoulder, Colorado, USAThx, Scott.... especially for the Meck Adjunct ! ! ( BTW, has rec.games.bridge died or dying ? ) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flem72 Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 ( BTW, has rec.games.bridge died or dying ? ) . Lately, some flame wars. But usually good stuff. SN 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rduran1216 Posted July 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Ok again, you're not playing any fancy 3c jump shift relays or anything like that. If you begin with 1S auction proceeds 1S 1NT? What do you bid now? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel_k Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Open 1♠ and rebid 3NT if partner responds 1NT. We could miss a game sometimes if it goes all pass, but it's more likely we get too high if I open 2♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semeai Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 I bid 3♣ if my partner is aware I might fake a jump-shift suit (especially this one). This allows me to get to hearts when it's right and to attempt some intelligent decision between notrump and spades otherwise. I imagine these artificial 3♣ agreements discussed above grew out of the tendency to fake jump-shift suits, especially the lowest one, just like 4th suit forcing as an actual agreement grew out of all sorts of people faking a natural 4th suit. If partner will take me too seriously, probably I should just rebid 3NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 But I'm afraid I'll open 1♠ and make a "weird" GF 3♣! jump-shift ( may be artificial ) over 1NTF! I am really surprised you do not play transfers over 1NT, Don. Then the GOSH is easily described by: 1S - 1NT; 2H - 2S; 3NT/4S. This approach would seem to be right up your alley. Of course there are plenty of alternative gadgets for this auction. The title of this and most of the other threads of the type could be "Acol 2 hands are a problem without methods". For me the answer is simple - if they bother you that much then play Benji 2s, multi, or incorporate some gadgets for strong hands, if not accept it and trust most of the rest of the field has the same problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 But usually good stuff. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 1♠ is a non-problem, sorry. Easy 3N rebid over 1N. If I play the 3♣ gadget, I haven't had enough discussion with my partners about the nuances of 1♠ - 1N - 3N and 1♠ - 1N - 3♣* - 3♦** - 3♠, much less 1♠ - 1N - 4x. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 I am really surprised you do not play transfers over 1NT, Don. Then the GOSH is easily described by: 1S - 1NT; 2H - 2S; 3NT/4S. This approach would seem to be right up your alley. Of course there are plenty of alternative gadgets for this auction. Thx, Zel.... I'll investigate the transfers. But now I'm actually more excited about the Meckstroth Adjunct ( mentioned only yesterday by Scott in post # 10 ). I found this link on it: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:xau6hiiQ070J:www.gravesendbridgeclub.org/CB/systems/TwoOverOneGF/MeckstrothAdjunct.html+Meckstroth+Adjunct&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rduran1216 Posted July 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 here are the two hands [hv=pc=n&s=sq93h6da84ck76542&n=sakt752haq9dk3ca8]133|200[/hv] Our auction went: 1S 1NT3C 4C4S 4NT5C 6Call pass 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Thx, Zel.... I'll investigate the transfers. But now I'm actually more excited about the Meckstroth Adjunct ( mentioned only yesterday by Scott in post # 10 ). I found this link on it: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:xau6hiiQ070J:www.gravesendbridgeclub.org/CB/systems/TwoOverOneGF/MeckstrothAdjunct.html+Meckstroth+Adjunct&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.comWell you could play transfers and the MA...For example:-1S - 1NT========2C = diamonds, or natural 2NT bid2D = hearts2H = 1-suited2S = 4+ clubs, min2N = art GF3C = 4+ clubs, INV3DH = 5+ clubs, shortage, GF3S = 5+ clubs, 6+ spades, GF Transferring and making a GF 3rd bid would show 5-5, going via 2NT only 5-4. Since you have gained so much extra space by using transfers I am sure you can further work out how to subcategorise 6-4, etc but I have not worked through enough detail on this yet myself. The disadvantage is not being able to stop in 2C if Responder is broke with (4)5 clubs. Nonetheless, I think there's plenty for you to work with here! :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robkat Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 here are the two hands [hv=pc=n&s=sq93h6da84ck76542&n=sakt752haq9dk3ca8]133|200[/hv] Our auction went: 1S 1NT3C 4C4S 4NT5C 6Call pass Starting with 2C allows reaching 7S via keycard blackwood at some point very easy. Starting with 1S is popular nowadays. The proponents of 1S ignore that you will have trouble letting partner know that you have a huge hand. With spades, I believe the downside of 2C is exaggerated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Starting with 2C allows reaching 7S via keycard blackwood at some point very easy.Let's see your auction.I don't think it's that easy.( I don't think the "captain" will be able to count to a sure 13 ) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 2c=2d(random a or k)2s=3s4c=4d4nt=5d(1-4)5h(qs?)=6c(qs,kc, deny KH)6d(kd,grand try)=7s pretty easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Or2C - 2D2S - 3S3N (serious) - 4C4D - 4H4N - 5C5D - 6C (this confirms heart cue was shortage)7S However, stating from 2C - (3H) might be interesting. It does not seem to be any harder after a 1S start either, though, assuming some methods. eg with transfers1S - 1N2H (spades) - 3S3N (serious) and continue as above. I am not sure such comparisons help us decide one way or the other for a particular opening on this hand because a single hand is too specific and therefore a poor sample. My sequence, for the record:-1C = 15+ nat/bal or 18+ any (expecting to treat the hand as an Acol 2 over a negative response)... - 1S = no 4 card major, GF1N = relay, usually 18+... - 2D = clubs, 1-suited2H = relay... - 2N = 6-7 clubs, 3 spades, <3 hearts3C = relay... - 3D = 3 diamonds, hence 3136 or 30374C = puppet to 4D (continuing relays would also have worked but this is simpler)... - 4D4N = RKCB for spades, and continue as above. In all of these sequences, once you find out about the heart shortage it is trivial to count to 13. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Or2C - 2D2S - 3S3N (serious) - 4C4D - 4H4N - 5C5D - 6C (this confirms heart cue was shortage)7S However, stating from 2C - (3H) might be interesting. It does not seem to be any harder after a 1S start either, though, assuming some methods. eg with transfers1S - 1N2H (spades) - 3S3N (serious) and continue as above. I am not sure such comparisons help us decide one way or the other for a particular opening on this hand because a single hand is too specific and therefore a poor sample. My sequence, for the record:-1C = 15+ nat/bal or 18+ any (expecting to treat the hand as an Acol 2 over a negative response)... - 1S = no 4 card major, GF1N = relay, usually 18+... - 2D = clubs, 1-suited2H = relay... - 2N = 6-7 clubs, 3 spades, <3 hearts3C = relay... - 3D = 3 diamonds, hence 3136 or 30374C = puppet to 4D (continuing relays would also have worked but this is simpler)... - 4D4N = RKCB for spades, and continue as above. In all of these sequences, once you find out about the heart shortage it is trivial to count to 13. no one playsa 2h=spades.fantasy----------- otoh other auctions fantasy... ----- I fully grant you can invent auctions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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