delayed texas?

[jillybean]

Does anyone, or has anyone played 1N-2C-2D-4D as a delayed texas transfer, 6♥, 4♠ ?

[wyman]

Does anyone, or has anyone played 1N-2C-2D-4D as a delayed texas transfer, 6♥, 4♠ ?

 

yes, definitely (also transfer to spades, via 1N-2C; 2D-4H)

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Does anyone, or has anyone played 1N-2C-2D-4D as a delayed texas transfer, 6♥ / 4♠ ?

yes, definitely (also transfer to spades, via 1N-2C; 2D-4H)

For some reason I played Texas-Over-Smolen to show these hands.

 

4s/6h :

1NT - 2C

2D - 3S ! ( ostensibly showing 4s/5h ) Smolen

3NT - 4D ! ( transfer to H ; showing 4s/6h ) Texas-over-Smolen

 

I guess I thought that the following could then show a 5s/6h hand ( with prior agreement ):

1NT - 2C

2D - 4D! ( 5s/6h )

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

Likewise for the 6s/4h and 6s/5h hands .

[Phil]

Does anyone, or has anyone played 1N-2C-2D-4D as a delayed texas transfer, 6♥, 4♠ ?

 

Its standard.

[jmcw]

Yes it is a Texas transfer for me too.

[semeai]

For some reason I played Texas-Over-Smolen to show these hands.

 

4s/6h :

1NT - 2C

2D - 3S ! ( ostensibly showing 4s/5h ) Smolen

3NT - 4D ! ( transfer to H ; showing 4s/6h ) Texas-over-Smolen

 

I guess I thought that the following could then show a 5s/6h hand ( with prior agreement ):

1NT - 2C

2D - 4D! ( 5s/6h )

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

Likewise for the 6s/4h and 6s/5h hands .

 

I'd expect smolen then move over 3NT to show slam interest, like a jacoby transfer then raise to 4, whereas texas over 1N-2C;2D shows none.

 

6-5 hands can be bid as 5-5's initially (then, e.g. rebid your 6 card suit), and are in any case more rare.

[mike777]

Does anyone, or has anyone played 1N-2C-2D-4D as a delayed texas transfer, 6♥, 4♠ ?

 

 

 

interesting, thanks for posting JB.

[jillybean]

For some reason I played Texas-Over-Smolen to show these hands.

 

4s/6h :

1NT - 2C

2D - 3S ! ( ostensibly showing 4s/5h ) Smolen

3NT - 4D ! ( transfer to H ; showing 4s/6h ) Texas-over-Smolen

 

I guess I thought that the following could then show a 5s/6h hand ( with prior agreement ):

1NT - 2C

2D - 4D! ( 5s/6h )

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

Likewise for the 6s/4h and 6s/5h hands .

 

Thanks, more sequences to consider.

[Siegmund]

It's common enough that I'd assume that was what 1N-2C-2D-4D meant with an unfamiliar partner.

 

On the other hand, I'd assume 1N-2C-2D-4S was 6S4H with an unfamiliar partner, too - and be afraid to ever use 1N-2C-2D-4H, for ANYthing, without prior discussion. Funny how that works, isnt it? (With my reg p, 4H is agreed as transfer to spades here of course.)

[Mbodell]

Its standard.

 

While it is standard, it is not that well known (I'd be surprised if 50% of people knew it in a random 299er field). I learned it only a year or so ago when my partner bid that exact sequence and I guessed to bid 4♥. I've only seen it used twice at my table, often people just texas and ignore the 4 card other major (I don't know if they do because of hand evaluation, or merely for fear that it could lead to a disaster).

[Phil]

While it is standard, it is not that well known (I'd be surprised if 50% of people knew it in a random 299er field).

 

I'd be surprised if 5% in a random field of 299ers knew about it but there's a lot of 'standard' gadgets that the junior game hasn't learned.

[Finch]

Its standard.

 

 

Standard???? I've never heard of it.

Texas transfers are virtually unknown here in England, so certainly delayed texas transfers are even more so.

 

If I had a weakish 64 in the majors (no slam interest) then in the vast majority of cases I would just get partner to declarer 4 of my 6-card suit. The 6-2 fit often plays much better than a 4-4 one opposite a strong NT.

[jillybean]

I'm with you Frances, I had never heard of it and I live in North America.

I have just added smolen and after looking at delayed texas over smolen, I think

I'd be happy to play in the 62 fit and forget this add on. I think the cost of forgotten

sequences is too great compared to the benefit.

[daveharty]

I think Phil's guess is probably correct. Delayed Texas is extremely common (not universal) among A and upper-B players here in Michigan, but almost unheard of among C players.

[blackshoe]

I think Texas is standard — it's certainly expert standard — in North America. Once you play that, and then agree to play Smolen — which isn't standard, but is fairly common at high levels — "delayed" Texas is pretty straightforward. IIRC, Marty Bergen has it in his new pamphlet series, "Secrets to Winning Bridge" volume 13 "What You Must Know About Transfers".

[mike777]

"think Texas is standard — it's certainly expert standard — in North America. Once you play that, and then agree to play Smolen — which isn't standard, but is fairly common at high levels — "delayed" Texas is pretty straightforward"

 

 

NO!

 

 

 

 

 

If you play TExas and Smolen not so simple.....So delayed texas is not as simple as other posters state!

--------------

 

 

 

I was told by partners that we play smolen and then retransfer :

-----------------)

 

If you play Smolen, we use that and then re-transfer if partner bids 3N.

 

 

 

1N----2C----2D-----3S (4-5)------3N-----4D would re-transfer to HEARTS.

 

 

 

The other one is the “fun” one…..hoping that partner remembers to re-transfer…..

 

 

 

1N-----2C------2D------3H (5-4)------3N-------4H (RE-TRANSFER, please, please

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 

 

good post jb.

[aguahombre]

Agree with all who say the delayed Texas is just to play, and that the Smolen sequence followed by showing 6 of one of the majors is slammish....this is logic. Hardly even necessary to discuss beforehand.

[MrAce]

Kathryn, the standart was

 

1NT-2♣

2♦-4M showing 6-4 and natural

 

Later people changed this to 4♦/4♥ being texas in order to let 1 NT opener declare. Dont be confused though, by saying "Later" i did not mean recently, this texas after stayman was being used in Turkey about 20 years ago and i don't think we Turks invented it. Like most countries which are coming from back, we also had a role model to improve, and in genereal American style bidding was the most popular, and i believe still it is. So i assume if this came to Turkey apprx 20 years ago, it was probably being played by Americans even b4 then. I still think it is wrong to say this is the standart since we are writing in B/I section. (And i still dunno why you posted/asked this in B/I)

 

Having said that, i played this Texas after stayman long time, now i do play it back natural. Here is my reason. (This part is probably for A/E readers)

 

1NT when i started bridge about 30 years ago was like 16-18 (19) hcp. And we all know when someone asks why we use transfers, the cliche answers A-Strong hand declares and leads come towards the hooks...B-Xfers gives flexibility in 2nd bid of responder...etc etc.

 

Now 16-19 1NT does not exist, most people play 15/17 and there is a huge migration towards 14-16, and those who play 14-16 frequently upgrades 13s. This migration reduced the advantage of 1 NT opener's being the declarer, but that still doesn't change the effectiveness of xfer bids due to reason B.

 

BUT...There is counter idea of the theory which disagrees the idea that says it is better for 1 NT opener to declare when pd has 6-4 or 7 trumps with any side. This counter theory says " It is better for the long trump holder to be the declarer when he has a wild hand" It really needs to be considered by at least advance expert community, because one of the factors that affects the outcome of a contract IS defense. It is very easy for defense when u see the 6-4 or 7330 7411 or 7420 in dummy, since u know what u can and what u can not do, much easier than if this hand was consealed.

 

I personally make sure in my pdships that responder is able to declare the major contract if he believes there ain't much to gain from the lead.

 

Here is how u can play both, if u sacrifice on gerber.

 

1NT-2♣

2♦-4♣ Texas, 4♦ Texas, 4M to play. (Basically same hands but responder looking at his hand decides which could serve better )

 

Over 2 NT opener we simply play texas on after stayman, and we also play texas on after smolen in both auctions which basically is a slam invitation with better picture of the hand.

 

EDITED to fix some typos*

[Mbodell]

1NT-2♣

2♦-4♣ Texas, 4♦ Texas, 4M to play. (Basically same hands but responder looking at his hand decides which could serve better )

 

I think you'd call these South African transfers (not Texas) and agree they can work well.

[blackshoe]

"South African Texas". :)

[MrAce]

I'd be happy to play in the 62 fit and forget this add on. I think the cost of forgotten

sequences is too great compared to the benefit.

 

No you won't be happy to play in 6-2 fit if you open 1 NT with 5 card major and miss a 5-4 fit. And i dont know about 6-2 being better than a 4-4 fit also, sounds like a simulation matter but i highly doubt it.

[jillybean]

deleted

[awm]

I'm not sure what else 1NT-2♣-2♦-4♦ would mean, besides being a transfer to one of the majors.

 

After all, standard is that a 3♦ rebid by responder would be natural and forcing, so you don't need to jump so high just to show diamonds.

 

On the other hand, 1NT-2♣-2♦-3♠-3NT-4♦ does have a meaning -- a slam-interested 4540 hand. I don't see a compelling reason to sacrifice the ability to bid those hands for a way to make opener declare on a 6-4, especially when you have available an otherwise useless bid to show the same hand type.

 

I agree that it's a bit better to play south african transfers there (or in general, actually) but gerber is very popular for somewhat mysterious reasons (and I hear it's not just north americans with this problem either).

[blackshoe]

There is, I suppose, some small possibility that the day after you give up Gerber, the hand where it is useful will come up. OTOH, you can console yourself with the thought that you probably won't see another such hand for a thousand years. :P