jillybean Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 AQ75, K64, KQJ, K52 NV vs. V, IMP What do you open here? If it's not 1♣, why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
menggq Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 I bid 1N=15-174333 18Hcp,No 10,9 etc; DKQJ might waste Hcp; not a good hand,sh be reduced value. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 1C. No reason not to do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zasanya Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 1NT if playing 16-18 NT (say Goren ) 1♠ if playing 4 card majors with upper Nt range not higher than 17hcp (say acol ) 1♥=18-20 hcp any distribution if playing K D Joshi 1♣in all other systems known to me (sayc, 2/1, various versions of precision/strong club ) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromageGB Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 A key point here is that if the hand is passed out, I would rather be playing in 1NT rather than 1♣. So 1NT for me, if I was playing 15-17. Enough reason, Hog? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromageGB Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 1NT if playing 16-18 NT (say Goren ) 1♠ if playing 4 card majors with upper Nt range not higher than 17hcp (say acol ) 1♥=18-20 hcp any distribution if playing K D Joshi 1♣in all other systems known to me (sayc, 2/1, various versions of precision/strong club )Yes, K D Joshi is a wonderful system as there is never any argument over the perfect opening bid. Who cares what the eventual contract may be ?1♣ is OK in strong club systems as it will be forcing. The trouble with a normal 1♣ is that it may be (and is quite likely to be) passed. While distorting your strength is wrong if it is likely to lead to the wrong level of contract, here the 18 count is a bad 18 as Meng said, and it won't. I have a preference to treat it as 17 and bid a contract I don't mind playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 A key point here is that if the hand is passed out, I would rather be playing in 1NT rather than 1♣. So 1NT for me, if I was playing 15-17. Enough reason, Hog?roflamoDefinitely not. You open this 1NT and partner will pass all flat 7 counts and many bad 8s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromageGB Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 roflamoDefinitely not. You open this 1NT and partner will pass all flat 7 counts and many bad 8s.OK, conceded. :angry: I missed that it was IMPs, where the game swing is vital compared with the small swings when in the wrong part score. In MPs I think the odds go with 1NT, as you will be more times playing in 1♣/1NT than you will be in game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wank Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 aside from missing game on this hand opposite a flat 8, your basic premise that 1♣ will often be (or even, is likely to be) passed is just off-the-graph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiddity Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 roflamoDefinitely not. You open this 1NT and partner will pass all flat 7 counts and many bad 8s. but game is probably terrible opposite a flat 7 count and many bad 8s, so what is your point? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 horrible honor structure, bad shape, no intermediates (not even an 8). I will open 1NT and then a more interesting question is if I should accept and invite. I suppose I will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 I just got through reading Bergen's little pamphlet on hand evaluation. I think his assessment of this hand would agree with mine: it's not worth 18 points. I'd downgrade it and open 1NT playing a 15-17 range. If my range includes even just some 18 pointers, this certainly qualifies. I see no good reason to open anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 I count 18 beans, so I open 1♣. I hate upgrading or downgrading these hands, and have not gotten hardly any good results from it, while getting quite a lot of bad ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaur Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 1♣ Flat hand, but one Q and one J, rest of HCP in prime cards. This is not a quacky 18 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted July 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Thanks all, this was a sanity check after playing the hand with a potential new partner.I happily opened 1♣ and played there opposite J9643, JT92, 98, T6. I don't hate 1N, the funny thing is partner said I should open 1♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 I would open 1NT, because I downgrade for 4333 hand pattern. Nuff said, but here is a little bit of data grabbed from online bridge (tables where JEC played) where 1NT was opened with 18 hcp. Note the one common thread in all these hands. The opener had 4333 pattern. NOTE: I searched the data by opening bid, so the person who opened is at the bottom of the diagram (not necessary south). So the true south could be sitting in any position. ========================================== C:\BRBR\datasets\testme..txt Produced by BRidgeBRowser on 17-Jul-11 [font="Courier New"]========================================== IMP-451 smispi Dlr: East Board 14 S 92 Vul: None H 9862 doubler D T74 alchilds S A87 C JT65 S 6543 H Q73 H T54 D Q985 jec D KJ3 C Q98 S KQJT C AK4 H AKJ D A62 C 732 West North East South doubler smispi alchilds jec Pass 1NT Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: D5 Result: Down 1 Score: -50 Points: -4.00 ========================================== IMP-1246 matushko Dlr: West Board 28 S 9732 Vul: N-S H Q983 fulvio2002 D AJ9 jec S AJT5 C 98 S 64 H 64 H JT2 D KQT2 leroumain D 853 C K53 S KQ8 C JT642 H AK75 D 764 C AQ7 North East South West fulvio2002 matushko jec leroumain 1NT Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: DK Result: Made 2 Score: 120 Points: -1.00 ========================================== IMP-743 jec Dlr: West Board 4 S AJ85 Vul: Both H 742 bridgeboy D 986 krobono S 96 C T93 S T743 H AQJT H K93 D KJ73 smispi D Q2 C 652 S KQ2 C J874 H 865 D AT54 C AKQ East South West North bridgeboy jec krobono smispi Pass 1NT Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: S9 Result: Made 2 Score: 120 Points: 0.00 ========================================== IMP-1914 Princi Dlr: South Board 3 S K976 Vul: E-W H Q2 jec D J743 smispi S Q83 C JT8 S A52 H J83 H 9765 D T5 fulldiRe D K98 C KQ652 S JT4 C 974 H AKT4 D AQ62 C A3 South West North East jec Princi smispi fulldiRe Pass Pass Pass 1NT Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: C5 Result: Made 3 Score: 150 Points: -11.00 ========================================== IMP-1639 weedo Dlr: South Board 19 S Q2 Vul: E-W H Q32 YR D 97652 mons16 S AJ9 C J65 S KT865 H J764 H T9 D Q8 jec D KJ3 C QT42 S 743 C 983 H AK85 D AT4 C AK7 West North East South YR weedo mons16 jec 1NT Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: H4 Result: Made 3 Score: 150 Points: 2.00 ========================================== IMP-1005 gzwudong Dlr: East Board 26 S 873 Vul: Both H T86 jec D T65 miamiwiz S A92 C KJ83 S T54 H Q7532 H KJ4 D KQ2 TranWay D J84 C T2 S KQJ6 C Q654 H A9 D A973 C A97 South West North East jec gzwudong miamiwiz TranWay 1NT! Pass Pass Pass 1. SelfAlert Opening lead: H3 Result: Made 1 Score: 90 Points: -2.00 ========================================== IMP-1277 fulvio2002 Dlr: West Board 4 S J854 Vul: Both H J4 tax456 D 96 leroumain S KT32 C T7653 S Q9 H A92 H T653 D K872 jec D JT53 C J2 S A76 C AQ4 H KQ87 D AQ4 C K98 West North East South tax456 fulvio2002 leroumain jec Pass Pass Pass 1NT Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: S2 Result: Down 1 Score: -100 Points: -5.00 ========================================== IMP-1283 jermy1ms Dlr: South Board 23 S T75 Vul: Both H T4 miamiwiz D QT74 jec S J932 C AQT7 S 86 H Q53 H A9876 D 863 smothplay D A92 C K86 S AKQ4 C 952 H KJ2 D KJ5 C J43 North East South West miamiwiz jermy1ms jec smothplay Pass 1NT Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: S2 Result: Made 4 Score: 180 Points: -1.00 ========================================== IMP-1269 LLORENZO Dlr: East Board 14 S 962 Vul: None H 72 xdshi D KQ97 jiang_gu S AQT8 C J862 S 753 H KJ65 H AT93 D T2 jec D 653 C 973 S KJ4 C QT4 H Q84 D AJ84 C AK5 West North East South xdshi LLORENZO jiang_gu jec Pass 1NT Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: H5 Result: Down 1 Score: -50 Points: 2.00 ========================================== IMP-1483 smispi Dlr: East Board 10 S T862 Vul: Both H 985 leroumain D T543 stewball S QJ5 C 95 S K73 H AKT4 H QJ7 D 6 jec D J972 C AJ763 S A94 C 842 H 632 D AKQ8 C KQT West North East South leroumain smispi stewball jec Pass 1NT Pass 2C Pass 2D Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: D6 Result: Down 1 Score: -100 Points: 1.00 ========================================== IMP-1540 jec Dlr: South Board 15 S A65 Vul: N-S H AK4 azzam1 D Q986 thejuwel S 843 C KQ2 S KQJ H Q32 H JT9 D KT42 miamiwiz D AJ53 C A74 S T972 C 963 H 8765 D 7 C JT85 East South West North azzam1 jec thejuwel miamiwiz 1NT Pass 2C Pass 2D Pass 2H* Pass Pass Pass 1. pass or correct Opening lead: H2 Result: Made 2 Score: 110 Points: 5.00 ========================================== IMP-95 smispi Dlr: North Board 13 S JT97 Vul: Both H Q6542 tez D 932 rafa S AQ8 C Q S 653 H K H J93 D QJT jec D K864 C T87632 S K42 C J94 H AT87 D A75 C AK5 West North East South tez smispi rafa jec Pass Pass 1NT Pass 2C Pass 2H Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: DQ Result: Made 5 Score: 200 Points: 7.00 ========================================== IMP-101 enverd Dlr: East Board 14 S 732 Vul: None H KJT32 jec D 84 smispi S JT864 C 762 S K9 H 65 H A974 D AQJ2 ergunk D T7 C T4 S AQ5 C QJ983 H Q8 D K9653 C AK5 South West North East jec enverd smispi ergunk 1NT Pass 2D Pass 2H Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: SJ Result: Down 1 Score: -50 Points: 3.00 ========================================== IMP-144 berynger Dlr: West Board 12 S K762 Vul: N-S H T92 smispi D 653 jec S QJ94 C 986 S T83 H AK753 H J64 D 984 TranWay D QT72 C 5 S A5 C AQ7 H Q8 D AKJ C KJT432 North East South West smispi berynger jec TranWay 1NT 2C! Pass 2D! 3C Pass Pass Pass 1. majors 2. u choose Opening lead: HA Result: Down 1 Score: -50 Points: 0.00 ========================================== IMP-280 bjde Dlr: South Board 19 S KQ97 Vul: E-W H QJ2 jec D J95 miamiwiz S AT32 C T92 S J865 H A64 H T9873 D Q62 vittipikki D A8 C AKJ S 4 C 76 H K5 D KT743 C Q8543 West North East South jec bjde miamiwiz vittipikki Pass 1NT Pass 2C Pass 2S Pass Pass 2NT Dbl Pass Pass 3C Dbl Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: CA Result: Down 3 Score: -500 Points: -12.00 ========================================== IMP-251 jec Dlr: South Board 11 S A42 Vul: None H AQ7 Dinos1 D AT3 weedo S KT96 C KJ73 S J875 H 85 H KT2 D KJ9875 ollina D Q4 C T S Q3 C A642 H J9643 D 62 C Q985 West North East South Dinos1 jec weedo ollina Pass Pass 1NT Pass 2D Dbl Rdbl Pass 2H Pass 3H Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: CT Result: Made 3 Score: 140 Points: 5.00 ========================================== IMP-268 jec Dlr: West Board 12 S 62 Vul: N-S H T8763 nevaio D JT9 oldsem S QT5 C 973 S A9874 H AJ4 H 52 D A764 miamiwiz D Q8 C K86 S KJ3 C JT42 H KQ9 D K532 C AQ5 East South West North nevaio jec oldsem miamiwiz Pass 1NT Pass 2D* Pass 2NT Pass 3D! Pass 3H Pass Pass Pass 1. xfer 2. SelfAlert Opening lead: C6 Result: Down 1 Score: -100 Points: 3.00 ========================================== IMP-525 fmchen Dlr: West Board 24 S A65432 Vul: None H 65 jec D 984 smispi S J7 C 43 S 9 H QJ72 H K83 D KQ53 caishan D JT6 C T85 S KQT8 C KQ9762 H AT94 D A72 C AJ South West North East jec fmchen smispi caishan Pass Pass 1NT Pass 2H Pass 2S Pass Pass 3C 3S Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: C5 Result: Made 3 Score: 140 Points: 5.00 ========================================== IMP-703 ollina Dlr: West Board 12 S A987 Vul: N-S H T9 caracci D J83 loloc S J6 C KQ97 S KT42 H Q865 H J732 D 742 jec D T96 C A864 S Q53 C J3 H AK4 D AKQ5 C T52 East South West North caracci ollina loloc jec Pass 1NT Pass 2C Pass 2D Pass 3NT Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: D7 Result: Made 3 Score: 600 Points: -1.00 ========================================== IMP-455 miamiwiz Dlr: East Board 22 S A75 Vul: E-W H 86 smispi D KT54 nevaio S 43 C A986 S JT986 H KT75 H 943 D J98 jec D Q62 C KT43 S KQ2 C J5 H AQJ2 D A73 C Q72 West North East South smispi miamiwiz nevaio jec Pass 1NT Pass 3NT Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: H5 Result: Made 5 Score: 460 Points: 1.00 ========================================== IMP-153 jec Dlr: West Board 4 S K75 Vul: Both H KQJ ronsmithsf D T8754 wstuart S JT42 C 52 S 96 H A3 H T8765 D 32 weedo D Q96 C AQT76 S AQ83 C 983 H 942 D AKJ C KJ4 East South West North ronsmithsf jec wstuart weedo Pass 1NT Pass 3NT Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: C7 Result: Made 5 Score: 660 Points: 2.00 ========================================== IMP-1349 miamiwiz Dlr: South Board 23 S 76 Vul: Both H J43 bielsli D AJ3 pikolo S KQJT3 C QT974 S 952 H T97 H KQ52 D 972 jec D QT54 C J5 S A84 C 62 H A86 D K86 C AK83 West North East South bielsli miamiwiz pikolo jec 1NT Pass 2NT Pass 3NT Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: SK Result: Made 3 Score: 600 Points: -1.00 ========================================== IMP-445 nevaio Dlr: West Board 20 S T4 Vul: Both H A932 sillafu D Q532 snabu S J9862 C QT8 S AK7 H KJ764 H T D 4 jec D JT987 C 63 S Q53 C J974 H Q85 D AK6 C AK52 West North East South sillafu nevaio snabu jec Pass Pass Pass 1NT Pass 2C Pass 2D Pass 2NT Pass 3NT Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: S9 Result: Down 1 Score: -100 Points: -12.00 ========================================== IMP-1611 00hido Dlr: South Board 11 S J3 Vul: None H 3 miamiwiz D T54 jec S T5 C AJT7432 S AQ982 H QT852 H J96 D AQ632 atalok D J87 C 5 S K764 C 86 H AK74 D K9 C KQ9 North East South West miamiwiz 00hido jec atalok Pass 1NT Pass 3NT Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: H5 Result: Made 3 Score: 400 Points: 0.00 ========================================== IMP-117 miamiwiz Dlr: South Board 15 S A963 Vul: N-S H T53 shurik D 832 rhsamuel S C KJ4 S QJ8752 H KQJ862 H 9 D T954 jec D J6 C 963 S KT4 C AT87 H A74 D AKQ7 C Q52 West North East South shurik miamiwiz rhsamuel jec 1NT 3H 3NT Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: HK Result: Down 1 Score: -100 Points: -12.00 ========================================== IMP-491 weedo Dlr: West Board 24 S K97 Vul: None H A2 nevaio D JT762 jec S J54 C 954 S T862 H 96 H JT854 D K954 ptrent D A3 C KQ87 S AQ3 C T6 H KQ73 D Q8 C AJ32 North East South West nevaio weedo jec ptrent 1NT Pass 3NT Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: D4 Result: Made 4 Score: 430 Points: 0.00 ========================================== IMP-711 smispi Dlr: East Board 6 S K9 Vul: E-W H K98 jtmckee D 876 scoolik S T83 C K9765 S J6542 H AQT74 H 63 D J2 jec D QT93 C JT3 S AQ7 C Q2 H J52 D AK54 C A84 West North East South jtmckee smispi scoolik jec Pass 1NT Pass 3NT Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: H7 Result: Made 6 Score: 490 Points: 1.00 ========================================== IMP-636 TranWay Dlr: East Board 18 S 8 Vul: N-S H AJ jec D 98754 ollina S Q6 C QJT98 S JT943 H Q932 H KT875 D KQJ6 KongWay D 32 C 743 S AK752 C 5 H 64 D AT C AK62 South West North East jec TranWay ollina KongWay 1NT Pass 3NT Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: DK Result: Made 3 Score: 400 Points: -11.00 ========================================== IMP-329 falcao Dlr: West Board 24 S 842 Vul: None H KQT8 jec D K2 fulvio2002 S KT6 C J743 S J75 H 432 H 765 D JT75 leroumain D A8643 C 952 S AQ93 C AT H AJ9 D Q9 C KQ86 South West North East jec falcao fulvio2002 leroumain Pass Pass 1NT Pass 2C Pass 2S Pass 3NT Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: DJ Result: Down 1 Score: -50 Points: 0.00 ========================================== IMP-1322 jec Dlr: North Board 13 S Q875 Vul: Both H 97 reisig D KQT53 sillafu S KJT3 C T7 S 64 H Q4 H AT863 D J64 miamiwiz D 98 C A843 S A92 C 9652 H KJ52 D A72 C KQJ East South West North reisig jec sillafu miamiwiz 1NT Pass 2C Pass 2H Pass 2NT Pass 3NT Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: C3 Result: Down 1 Score: -100 Points: -12.00 ========================================== IMP-1380 exorcizer Dlr: West Board 8 S Q64 Vul: None H K9863 jec D A943 nevaio S 95 C 7 S 8732 H A42 H J75 D T62 leroumain D J8 C AKT83 S AKJT C 6542 H QT D KQ75 C QJ9 South West North East jec exorcizer nevaio leroumain Pass Pass 1NT Pass 2D Pass 2H Pass 3D Pass 3NT Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: C8 Result: Made 3 Score: 400 Points: 0.00 ========================================== IMP-1196 hristoiv Dlr: East Board 18 S T642 Vul: N-S H A54 jec D KT3 smispi S Q987 C Q54 S J5 H T832 H 76 D Q42 leroumain D A965 C J6 S AK3 C KT982 H KQJ9 D J87 C A73 South West North East jec hristoiv smispi leroumain 1NT Pass 3NT Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: S7 Result: Made 3 Score: 400 Points: -1.00 ========================================== IMP-317 Jackth Dlr: South Board 23 S Q85 Vul: Both H A98 miamiwiz D QJ765 jec S KJ9 C A5 S T42 H J742 H T3 D T4 stewball D 932 C T764 S A763 C KJ982 H KQ65 D AK8 C Q3 North East South West miamiwiz Jackth jec stewball Pass 1NT Pass 3NT Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: H2 Result: Made 5 Score: 660 Points: 13.00 ========================================== IMP-968 jec Dlr: North Board 1 S KQ52 Vul: None H QJ4 ghelgemo D JT7 helstokk S 964 C JT5 S T87 H T862 H K93 D 96 miamiwiz D Q543 C A987 S AJ3 C K43 H A75 D AK82 C Q62 East South West North ghelgemo jec helstokk miamiwiz 1NT Pass 3NT Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: H6 Result: Made 4 Score: 430 Points: 0.00 ========================================== IMP-277 sillafu Dlr: North Board 9 S 95 Vul: E-W H AQ84 jec D A8 miamiwiz S J873 C T8732 S AQ42 H J3 H 9652 D T9643 reisig D J2 C 54 S KT6 C K96 H KT7 D KQ75 C AQJ South West North East jec sillafu miamiwiz reisig Pass 1NT Pass 2C Pass 2D Pass 3S* Pass 3NT Pass Pass Pass 1. 4h 2s Opening lead: DT Result: Made 5 Score: 660 Points: -1.00 ========================================== IMP-1750 WarrenS Dlr: North Board 9 S T5 Vul: E-W H KQJT2 smispi D 72 jec S KJ983 C QJ72 S 7642 H 6 H 754 D KT864 Gavin D Q3 C 63 S AQ C A854 H A983 D AJ95 C KT9 North East South West smispi WarrenS jec Gavin Pass Pass Pass 1NT Pass 2D Pass 3H Pass 4H Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: C6 Result: Made 5 Score: 650 Points: 1.00 ========================================== IMP-1216 weedo Dlr: West Board 20 S JT54 Vul: Both H KJ93 jec D Q5 smispi S K C Q82 S A8763 H T82 H 64 D J8743 ptrent D 962 C AT53 S Q92 C J74 H AQ75 D AKT C K96 South West North East jec weedo smispi ptrent Pass Pass 1NT Pass 2C Pass 2H Pass 3H Pass 4H Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: H2 Result: Made 4 Score: 620 Points: 0.00 ========================================== IMP-604 mauro666 Dlr: South Board 27 S A9 Vul: None H QT832 fulvio2002 D J32 jec S T8432 C K92 S 65 H K9 H J65 D 865 tosimay D KQ974 C QJ3 S KQJ7 C T64 H A74 D AT C A875 North East South West fulvio2002 mauro666 jec tosimay Pass 1NT* Pass 2D Pass 2H Pass 3C* Pass 3H* Pass 4H Pass Pass Pass 1. 15-17 2. more desc 3. 3 h Opening lead: CQ Result: Made 5 Score: 450 Points: 0.00 ========================================== IMP-1667 nevaio Dlr: East Board 18 S 864 Vul: N-S H A976 merijng D KJ9 BobDrijver S J972 C 987 S QT5 H 3 H T854 D AQ63 jec D T42 C JT62 S AK3 C A43 H KQJ2 D 875 C KQ5 West North East South merijng nevaio BobDrijver jec Pass 1NT Pass 2C Pass 2H Pass 3H Pass 4H Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: CJ Result: Down 1 Score: -100 Points: -12.00 ========================================== IMP-414 smispi Dlr: East Board 18 S T54 Vul: N-S H AT952 azzam1 D KQ thejuwel S Q76 C A98 S K832 H 874 H K6 D 975 jec D T643 C J532 S AJ9 C 764 H QJ3 D AJ82 C KQT West North East South azzam1 smispi thejuwel jec Pass 1NT Pass 2D Pass 2H Pass 3NT Pass 4H Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: C2 Result: Made 6 Score: 680 Points: 0.00 ========================================== IMP-1142 miamiwiz Dlr: North Board 25 S J76 Vul: E-W H KT7654 ionutcld D 6 leroumain S KT83 C 943 S Q92 H 2 H 93 D KQJ92 jec D AT85 C 875 S A54 C KT62 H AQJ8 D 743 C AQJ West North East South ionutcld miamiwiz leroumain jec Pass Pass 1NT Pass 2D Pass 2S! Pass 3D Pass 3H Pass 4H Pass Pass Pass 1. max Opening lead: DK Result: Made 4 Score: 420 Points: 0.00 ========================================== IMP-735 ritong Dlr: North Board 25 S AKT43 Vul: E-W H QJ963 jec D 7 smispi S QJ6 C K2 S 9852 H A42 H 75 D AK2 Jackth D QJT53 C AT76 S 7 C 53 H KT8 D 9864 C QJ984 South West North East jec ritong smispi Jackth Pass Pass 1NT 2C* Pass 2H Pass 3H Pass 4H Pass Pass Pass 1. majors Opening lead: DA Result: Down 2 Score: -200 Points: -3.00 ========================================== IMP-583 sengulerz Dlr: North Board 5 S A97 Vul: N-S H QJT73 jec D AJ43 miamiwiz S QT8 C 4 S K63 H AK5 H 2 D K85 tez D 976 C KQJ8 S J542 C AT7652 H 9864 D QT2 C 93 South West North East jec sengulerz miamiwiz tez Pass Pass 1NT 2D! 2S* 3H* 3NT 4H Pass Pass Pass 1. any major 2. clubs 3. p/c Opening lead: CK Result: Down 2 Score: -100 Points: 11.00 ========================================== IMP-449 jec Dlr: East Board 2 S Q72 Vul: N-S H AK32 Disa D A74 vdoubleu S 8 C AJ7 S AKJ543 H 6 H T5 D KJ9853 fulvio2002 D T62 C K6542 S T96 C 93 H QJ9874 D Q C QT8 East South West North Disa jec vdoubleu fulvio2002 Pass 1NT Pass 2D Dbl 3C! Pass 3D 4C 4D Pass 4H Pass Pass Pass 1. best raise, cue Opening lead: S8 Result: Made 4 Score: 620 Points: 0.00 ========================================== IMP-164 miamiwiz Dlr: South Board 27 S KQJ9 Vul: None H AK6 helstokk D T43 ghelgemo S 42 C KQT S AT753 H T2 H J4 D K9865 jec D A C A654 S 86 C 98732 H Q98753 D QJ72 C J West North East South helstokk miamiwiz ghelgemo jec Pass Pass 1NT 2D! Pass 2H Pass 2S 3H 4C 4H Dbl Pass Pass Pass 1. h or s + minor Opening lead: S4 Result: Down 2 Score: -300 Points: -9.00 ========================================== IMP-679 jec Dlr: East Board 10 S KJ972 Vul: Both H J96 LLORENZO D A872 nevaio S 5 C 6 S T863 H T85 H A742 D K654 miamiwiz D J C Q9875 S AQ4 C KT32 H KQ3 D QT93 C AJ4 East South West North LLORENZO jec nevaio miamiwiz Pass Pass Pass 1NT Pass 2H! Pass 2NT* Pass 3D Pass 4C Pass 4D Pass 4S Pass Pass Pass 1. SelfAlert 2. max 3 good trump Opening lead: D5 Result: Made 5 Score: 650 Points: -1.00 ========================================== IMP-926 tendenz Dlr: East Board 10 S JT7653 Vul: Both H T3 jec D AT86 nevaio S KQ84 C Q S H K6 H QJ852 D 74 leroumain D J532 C K7654 S A92 C T983 H A974 D KQ9 C AJ2 South West North East jec tendenz nevaio leroumain 1NT Pass 2H Pass 3S Pass 4S Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: D7 Result: Made 4 Score: 620 Points: 0.00 ========================================== IMP-108 miamiwiz Dlr: East Board 2 S KJT8 Vul: N-S H A76 pehlivan D JT95 gid S 9763 C K8 S 2 H Q854 H T32 D Q876 jec D K4 C 7 S AQ54 C QJT9654 H KJ9 D A32 C A32 West North East South pehlivan miamiwiz gid jec Pass 1NT Pass 2C 3C Pass Pass Dbl Pass 3S Pass 4S Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: C7 Result: Made 5 Score: 650 Points: 0.00 ========================================== IMP-12 dobrin Dlr: East Board 6 S Q94 Vul: E-W H AQ97 jec D A82 nevaio S J8 C AQ4 S K3 H KT653 H J42 D KQ MZH D J7543 C J987 S AT7652 C K52 H 8 D T96 C T63 South West North East jec dobrin nevaio MZH Pass Pass 1NT Pass 2H Dbl 2NT! Pass 4S Pass Pass Pass 1. max, 3 cards supp Opening lead: DK Result: Down 1 Score: -100 Points: -6.00 ========================================== IMP-1078 fulldiRe Dlr: North Board 5 S AK652 Vul: N-S H AQ jec D J74 nevaio S Q983 C 762 S 7 H T9852 H J43 D T82 leroumain D 965 C T S JT4 C KQ8543 H K76 D AKQ3 C AJ9 South West North East jec fulldiRe nevaio leroumain Pass 1NT Pass 2H Pass 2S Pass 3NT Pass 4S Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: CT Result: Made 5 Score: 450 Points: -1.00 ========================================== IMP-815 fulvio2002 Dlr: North Board 13 S T975 Vul: Both H PYG D QT953 mgr777 S J8 C AT53 S K43 H Q87542 H AT93 D K842 jec D 7 C 7 S AQ62 C QJ982 H KJ6 D AJ6 C K64 West North East South PYG fulvio2002 mgr777 jec Pass Pass 1NT Pass 2C Pass 2S Pass 3S Pass 4S Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: C7 Result: Down 1 Score: -100 Points: 5.00 ========================================== IMP-87 stewball Dlr: West Board 4 S Q9832 Vul: Both H 4 jec D Q7 fulvio2002 S J54 C QJ932 S AT H QJ632 H KT875 D KJT3 leroumain D 852 C 6 S K76 C T84 H A9 D A964 C AK75 South West North East jec stewball fulvio2002 leroumain Pass Pass 1NT Pass 2H Dbl 3S 4H 4S Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: C6 Result: Made 4 Score: 620 Points: 0.00 ========================================== IMP-956 smispi Dlr: East Board 10 S QJT87 Vul: Both H 6 liubo71 D J9432 alchilds S 962 C 52 S 54 H K873 H QT952 D 76 jec D A85 C AK94 S AK3 C QT6 H AJ4 D KQT C J873 West North East South liubo71 smispi alchilds jec Pass 1NT Pass 2H Pass 2NT! Pass 3H! Pass 3S Pass 4S Pass Pass Pass 1. max, 3s 2. retfr Opening lead: CA Result: Made 4 Score: 620 Points: 13.00 ========================================== IMP-1283 jermy1ms Dlr: North Board 9 S J965 Vul: E-W H KQJ miamiwiz D 84 jec S Q42 C A873 S T8 H T8763 H 94 D 97 smothplay D AJ532 C T94 S AK73 C KJ65 H A52 D KQT6 C Q2 North East South West miamiwiz jermy1ms jec smothplay Pass Pass Pass 1NT Pass 2C Pass 2S Pass 4S Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: D9 Result: Made 4 Score: 620 Points: -1.00 ========================================== IMP-794 miamiwiz Dlr: North Board 9 S JT987 Vul: E-W H 6 farfie D T862 ritong S 43 C 863 S A2 H T9732 H AJ84 D QJ94 jec D 73 C 72 S KQ65 C AKQT5 H KQ5 D AK5 C J94 East South West North farfie miamiwiz ritong jec 1NT Pass 2H 3C 4S Pass Pass Dbl Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: C7 Result: Down 2 Score: -300 Points: -9.00 ========================================== IMP-1763 TranWay Dlr: East Board 6 S AK9 Vul: E-W H K972 ollina D K62 jec S 4 C AJ4 S Q832 H JT653 H 84 D JT94 ylii D AQ73 C T62 S JT765 C K98 H AQ D 85 C Q753 North East South West ollina TranWay jec ylii 1NT! Pass 2C Pass 2H Pass 3S Pass 4C Pass 4D Pass 5S Pass Pass Pass 1. SelfAlert Opening lead: DJ Result: Down 3 Score: -300 Points: -14.00 ========================================== IMP-1078 fulldiRe Dlr: East Board 22 S Vul: E-W H AKT875 jec D 74 nevaio S QT964 C J8743 S J875 H 4 H 632 D KJT2 leroumain D Q65 C K96 S AK32 C QT2 H QJ9 D A983 C A5 South West North East jec fulldiRe nevaio leroumain 1NT Pass 2D Pass 2H 2S 4H 4S Dbl Pass 5C Pass 6H Pass Pass Pass Opening lead: S4 Result: Made 6 Score: 1430 Points: 12.00 ========================================== IMP-1945 jec Dlr: South Board 15 S A95 Vul: N-S H A42 matushko D AQ87 loki2oo2 S 842 C A32 S 76 H 873 H KQT965 D JT92 miamiwiz D 5 C KJ8 S KQJT3 C T754 H J D K643 C Q96 East South West North matushko jec loki2oo2 miamiwiz 1NT 3H 3S Pass 4H Pass 4NT Pass 5D! Pass 6S Pass Pass Pass 1. 1 or 4 Opening lead: H3 Result: Down 1 Score: -100 Points: 3.00 ========================================== IMP-1087 ollina Dlr: South Board 27 S QJ9 Vul: None H K84 Lunardi D AQ632 J Li S 76432 C K9 S 85 H 652 H J93 D 984 jec D J5 C AJ S AKT C 876432 H AQT7 D KT7 C QT5 West North East South Lunardi ollina J Li jec 1NT Pass 4NT! Pass 6NT Pass Pass Pass 1. quant Opening lead: D8 Result: Made 6 Score: 990 Points: -1.00 ========================================== [/font] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 I play better minor so I open 1♦ :) I hate downgrading or upgrading these hands as well so I am ready to bid 2NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted July 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Interesting hands Ben. Can you search the same hands for 1m openings and compare results? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmcw Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 If you habitually downgrade based on shape, spot cards, and soft/hard honors then presumably you will also upgrade when you hold a good 14, effectively your 15/17 Nt range is 14+/18-.I for one question the wisdom of this practice, I would like to hear from partner before I start downgrading. If you open this hand 1♣ and partner responses 1 of anything does that not indicate that your honor(s) within that suit should be upgraded?. Besides, if you open 1NT and partner passes with a hand that makes 3 don't you run the risk of playing the balance of the set with a pissed partner. I agree this is a less than a perfect 18 count, but I'm opening 1♣ and rebidding 2NT opposite a red suit response, this satisfies my agreements and I expect the field will be making the same call. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 but game is probably terrible opposite a flat 7 count and many bad 8s, so what is your point? Did you see it is imps? Further if I have this hand I want to be in game opposite a bad 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 Interesting hands Ben. Can you search the same hands for 1m openings and compare results? You can. I looked at three databases. One made up of 5 million online ACBL hands, one made up of 12 million online main room hands from bbo, and one made of hands from bbo online tourneys (forget how many). I restricted the search to hands were dealer had 18 hcp and any 4333 distribution. In the three tables below, the opening bid is in the left hand column. The total number of such hands making that opening bid is next, then the average imps won for that opening bid followed by how many hands opened that bid at imps, then the average number of matchpoints won followed by the number of matchpoint hands. The number of matchpoint plus number of imp hands equal the number of hands that opened that bid. (sorry they don't line up perfectly, but you can figure them out i hope) Note very small number, like the number of people who opened say 1H or 2D, lead to wild averages. I wouldn't consider any bid with less than 250 opening bids too strongly as meaningful. But note how close the larger range of bids are for the three databases I checked. You should also note that 1NT opening bid was plus imps (in the range of 0.12 to 0.30 for the database) and plus matchpoints between 51% and 52.4%. One of a minor was below 50% in all three databases, and minus imps for 1♦ in all three and minus imps in two of the three for 1♣ and only +0.02 in the other. We also have to remember that 1♣ could be the "strong" variety as in precision and similar methods. ACBL TOURNEYS Bid Open AvIMP # Imp AvMP #MP 1C 3848 0.02 1918 49.21 1930 1D 1717 -0.14 870 48.18 847 1H 14 2.27 5 56.72 9 1S 14 2.31 4 44.97 10 1N 3722 0.11 1355 51.33 2367 2C 11 -5.1 4 52.26 7 2D 19 -0.71 15 82.26 4 2H 1 0 0 28.57 1 2S 2 0 0 29.92 2 2NT 96 -0.8 28 46.33 68 Tourneys Bid Open AvIMP # Imp AvMP #MP 1C 2530 -0.04 1695 49.73 835 1D 970 -0.32 665 48.82 305 1H 7 1.1 5 16.66 2 1S 14 5.32 8 65 6 1NT 1297 0.34 639 51.11 658 2C 5 -2.36 4 28.57 1 2D 6 4.65 2 54.35 4 2H 0 0 0 50 0 2S 0 0 0 50 0 2NT 30 1.49 17 63.63 13 MAIN ROOM Bid Open AvIMP # Imp AvMP #MP 1C 8374 -0.04 8245 47.8 129 1D 3287 -0.16 3223 47.34 64 1H 209 0.43 208 46.67 1 1S 204 -0.55 200 57.5 4 1NT 15277 0.12 15094 52.4 183 2C 40 - 0.84 40 50 0 2D 19 - 0.53 19 50 0 2H 2 - 4.8 2 50 0 2S 3 3.05 3 50 0 2NT 355 -0.85 352 45.55 3 I didn't mention it, but the final contract of 1NT (no matter what was opened) did ok on average with +0.07 and 52.5% in the main room database from above. While 2NT (most likely gotten to by 1m-1x-2NT rebid did horrible. Average -1.97 and 43.04%. Of course, 2NT is not a good contract which is why jacoby 2NT, good bad 2Nt, lebenshol, etc use it conventionally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 I think downgrading this one is pretty ridiculous. Good players are naturally averse to downgrades and many (most) will probably never downgrade an 18 which is probably wrong but I just can't see doing it with this one. It is not a good 4333 18 but it's certainly not one of the worst, and that's what I would reserve an 18 point downgrade for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnu Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 aside from missing game on this hand opposite a flat 8, your basic premise that 1♣ will often be (or even, is likely to be) passed is just off-the-graph FWIW, ending up in 1♣ or 1♦ happens a surprising number of times if you play against the GIBs♣ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromageGB Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 ... 1NT opening bid was plus imps (in the range of 0.12 to 0.30 for the database) and plus matchpoints between 51% and 52.4%. One of a minor was below 50% in all three databases, and minus imps for 1♦ in all three and minus imps in two of the three for 1♣ and only +0.02 in the other. We also have to remember that 1♣ could be the "strong" variety as in precision and similar methods. An interesting analysis that seems to demonstrate the benefits of calling this hand a 1NT open. Of course the fact that the strong 1♣ will not be playing in 1♣ means that if those hands could be excluded, the very slight +.02 imps for the 1♣ opne would also be negative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromageGB Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 aside from missing game on this hand opposite a flat 8, your basic premise that 1♣ will often be (or even, is likely to be) passed is just off-the-graphMaybe you have never played at a table where the contract is 1♣, but I have. While a minimum opening 1♣ will often be overcalled, responded to, or protected, an 18 point 1♣ is a different kettle of fish. Many times no hand will feel it can say anything. Not everyone overcalls or protects on a scattered 6 count. My reasoning for preferring 1NT at matchpoints is that partner (each of the other 3 hands) is expected to have 6 points, or near. If partner is :good 8, or 9 = we will be in game, like 3NT, regardless of what we open. So the choice of 1♣ and 1NT makes no difference.7 or bad 8 = opening 1NT misses game, a bad result6 = no difference, let's say we get the same result3,4, or 5 = opening 1C and playing there is a bad result.So without any clever arithmetic, opening 1C is worse than opening 1NT at matchpoints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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