11 card fit

[jillybean]

Here's a hand from tonights NAP Qualifying Game...

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sht98754daq32cq63&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=pp1hd4h4s5hpp5spp?]133|200[/hv]

[mike777]

fwiw Htw 4h.

 

I need another option.

[whereagles]

6♦, a lead director just in case opps drive to 6♠.

 

5♠ probably goes down but we're not getting rich doubling this. If pard has a club honor together with his AKQ of hearts, slam has a genuine chance.

[VM1973]

This is what you get for not psyching a spade over the double. 6♦ is a good call, but I wouldn't make it. I would probably double. I assume partner's pass is forcing so he can't have ♠xx(x) or he'd have to double. He probably has ♠Ax(x) or Kx(x).

 

Maybe we should have bid 5♥ instead of 4♥.

 

Edit: Since I use the rule of 15 and I assume my partner does too, the only way he could have opened light would be with 4+ spades. He must have a full opener.

[aguahombre]

Another case where I have put myself in a position of having to mastermind a bid now because I grossly misstated the potential of my hand earlier.

 

The 4♥ response directly over the double did not nearly approach describing the slam suitability of my collection. Would have chosen a 3♠ response; might still have a problem on the next round, but would be more comfortable that partner's next bid was based on a clue that my hand is good.

 

However, sticking with the premise that I sat in for the 4H bidder who suddenly became ill, 6♦ is a reasonable guess and much better than abstaining. Alternatively, I could continue to keep the other 3 players totally in the dark by bidding 6H.

[mtvesuvius]

I assume partner's pass is forcing so he can't have ♠xx(x) or he'd have to double. He probably has ♠Ax(x) or Kx(x).

 

IMO this is backwards if this were a forcing pass auction. Partner isn't that eager to defend if they have 2 small spades opposite your marked shortness, however partner would be happy to defend with a bunch of there values in spades. Therefore I would expect 2 or 3 small spades from partner (maybe Jxx).

 

This should not be a forcing pass for a lot of reasons: Partner bid under pressure, we are W/R, and we made a pre-emptive raise (which I am not a fan of).

 

There is no reason for us to think it is our hand. One of the reasons that I don't like the pre-emptive raise is that we will have no idea what to do in situations similar to this. If we were to show a limit raise which this hand is certainly worth then at least we wouldn't feel nearly as constrained to bid on later, and at least for me we would be in a Forcing Pass situation.

 

Given the auction as it is, I would try 6♦ as a lead director. I don't think that we are beating 5♠, and I have a bit more than partner expected.

[jillybean]

This is what you get for not psyching a spade over the double. 6♦ is a good call, but I wouldn't make it. I would probably double. I assume partner's pass is forcing so he can't have ♠xx(x) or he'd have to double. He probably has ♠Ax(x) or Kx(x).

 

Maybe we should have bid 5♥ instead of 4♥.

 

Edit: Since I use the rule of 15 and I assume my partner does too, the only way he could have opened light would be with 4+ spades. He must have a full opener.

Why would you psyche a ♠ ?

 

& how do others bid over the double?

[jillybean]

There is no reason for us to think it is our hand. One of the reasons that I don't like the pre-emptive raise is that we will have no idea what to do in situations similar to this. If we were to show a limit raise which this hand is certainly worth then at least we wouldn't feel nearly as constrained to bid on later, and at least for me we would be in a Forcing Pass situation.

If you start with a limit raise you will bid game if partner stops in 3♥ and over 4♥ you will make a slam try?

[mtvesuvius]

If you start with a limit raise you will bid game if partner stops in 3♥ and over 4♥ you will make a slam try?

I will bid game over 3♥, but won't make a slam try over 4♥... 4♥ says partner is accepting, and tends to deny a slam try... Partner had the entire 3 and 4 level to do something slammish. I would prefer to bid 3♠ as a splinter, but I play all jumps here as fit-showing with different degrees of fit.

[VM1973]

Why would you psyche a ♠ ?

 

& how do others bid over the double?

I just think the auction would have gone very differently had it started:

P-P-1H-DBL

1S-DBL-2H-??

 

Or

P-P-1H-DBL

1S-2NT-3H-??

[Phil]

So much here.

 

1. 4♥ is an underbid. By a lot. I'd probably go with 4♦ if thats fitted, but 3♠ if 4♦ isn't available. Even 2N wouldn't be a terrible description.

 

2. Bidding over 5♠ looks pretty loco to me. If I bid slam, it would be because I thought I could make 6♥, not because I thought 5♠ was making (although both could be true). To suggest a lead director is pretty insane - who in their right minds is actually bidding 6♠ in this auction? By the way, if partner has a moderate double fit and club shortness, we could easily make 6♥: xxx, AKQxx, KT9x, x.

 

3. We are not in a forcing pass. Not even close.

 

@VM1973, I'm sorry but that rather large target you have seem to have painted on your back needs to stay on for one more day. Psyching 1♠ is a very bad idea. This gives LHO four ways to bid spades (double, 2, 3 and 4♠). 4♥ at least puts significant pressure on LHO and only gives one call to show spades.

[mtvesuvius]

I just think the auction would have gone very differently had it started:

P-P-1H-DBL

1S-DBL-2H-??

 

Or

P-P-1H-DBL

1S-2NT-3H-??

Generally exposing one level psyches are quite easy. If you made a 3♠ fit-jump it might be harder ;)

 

It is also good to have the agreement that (1x)-P-(1y)-2x or 2y are both natural. Similarly after partner doubles, 2x would be a cuebid, and 2y is natural. With this agreement in place, you can uncover psyches much easier. I think that there are certainly times for psyching a 1♠ call, but this isn't one of them. If I were to do anything, I would bid 4♠ or make a fit-jump then 5♥ when LHO slams the double on the table. A 1♠ psych on these hands generally won't do much except not allow you to show your hand and judge accurately later.

[jillybean]

Thanks. Before I post the full hand, would you do anything differently if partner doubles 5♠?

[mtvesuvius]

Thanks. Before I post the full hand, would you do anything differently if partner doubles 5♠?

I'd pass if partner doubled.

[barryallen]

:unsure: I would bid 6♥ after partner found a double following the 4♥ bid.

 

After seeing what partner bases their doubles on, a rethink would be in order.

[Bbradley62]

Edit: Since I use the rule of 15 and I assume my partner does too, the only way he could have opened light would be with 4+ spades. He must have a full opener.

What will it take to convince you that the rest of the world does not use Rule of 15 in third seat?

[jillybean]

So I wouldnt have had all these problems if I had made the 1st bid correctly, here's the full hand.

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sht98754daq32cq63&w=sj965432h3dk64c54&n=sk8hakj62d9ckj972&e=saqt7hqdjt875cat8&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=pp1hd4h4s5hpp5spp6hdppp]399|300[/hv]

 

Lead A♠

[mtvesuvius]

All's well that ends well :)

[jjbrr]

did west really crack 6H or was it east?

 

I'd have bid 3S over the double, though i agree with Phil that 4D if fitted is OK as well as 2NT. I also agree that psyching 1S on this particular hand is losing bridge. The hand is strong enough that slam is certainly reasonable opposite some minimum openers, so there's no reason to bid defensively. Just tell partner what you have.

[VM1973]

I'm sorry... I take my advice back. I was bidding based on the idea that a sane person was at the helm in West. I really cannot believe that this type of hand would push to 5♠ at unfavorable vulnerability.

 

All in all, assuming the auction went:

P-P-1♥-DBL

1♠-??

 

I really don't think a sane person would double holding West's hand. As far as he can tell spades is the only contract he can beat and he must surely be thinking his partner has 17+ and a minor suit. He should pass, your partner will bid 2♣ and then I don't know what happens, but 4♥ will probably be the final contract.

[jillybean]

I could have, should have splintered and even without the ♠ lead it makes, but we would not have been doubled :)

[jjbrr]

If it goes 1H dbl 3S 4S it's not clear what everyone should do now. I guess N could try 5C and S can just bid the slam?

[jillybean]

did west really crack 6H or was it east?

 

I'd have bid 3S over the double, though i agree with Phil that 4D if fitted is OK as well as 2NT. I also agree that psyching 1S on this particular hand is losing bridge. The hand is strong enough that slam is certainly reasonable opposite some minimum openers, so there's no reason to bid defensively. Just tell partner what you have.

Yup, West

[jillybean]

Are you guys playing 1♥ (X) 3♠/4♦ as fit jumps and don't have splinters ?

[Phil]

Are you guys playing 1♥ (X) 3♠/4♦ as fit jumps and don't have splinters ?

 

This was discussed a few weeks ago. Both are playable; I prefer fitted.