4th chair vs. Xfer Responses

[aguahombre]

(1C) P (1H)* ?

 

The heart response (or similarly 1D) is a transfer response. Is the following 4th chair scheme as good as any? Or is there a better one?

 

Double=overcall(or+) in strength with 5+ hearts

1S=takeout as if the auction had gone 1C-1S

2H=similar to a WJO which wouldn't have been available if they weren't playing the gadget.

Other bids same as if the auction had gone 1C-1S.

 

Seems simple enough for us simple people. Are we losing an opportunity?

[glen]

... Other bids same as if the auction had gone 1C-1S. ... Are we losing an opportunity?

and 1NT is?

[ggwhiz]

and 1NT is?

 

Sandwich for the red suits. Or whatever you choose to play naturally.

[aguahombre]

1NT is natural for us, but I didn't mention it, in case the other part of our scheme creates a need to change 1NT. I don't think it does, but I am not answering my own questions, just asking.

[dake50]

Yeah a lost opportunity.

Big loss is not fast fit against their ambiguous 1C.

X: big hand with transfer responses.

1S: pre-bid on a long minor source of tricks.

Asks 3NT by partner's S-stop.

2H: WJO/H-overcall don't yet need to be distinguished. Just a suit.

[semeai]

Double=overcall+ in strength with 5+ hearts

<snip>

Seems simple enough for us simple people. Are we losing an opportunity?

 

I can't help but feel that the ability to bid 1H over 1S is so good that this is much better than any other choice.

 

The auction 1C P 1D* X is maybe more interesting. I still like the analogous method, as overcalling 1D over 1H is still pretty good, though not quite as good as overcalling 1H over 1S.

[paulg]

We play:

 

Double is takeout of spades

1♠ = hearts and a minor

1NT = natural, 15-17 balanced

2♣ = natural

2♦ = natural

2♥ = natural

2♠ = natural

 

This changes if partner made a take-out double:

 

(1C) – Dbl – (1H = spades) – Dbl = natural, 4+H, 5+ pts

(1C) – Dbl – (1H = spades) – 1S = natural, 4+S, 5-8 pts

(1C) – Dbl – (1H = spades) – 2S = natural, 5+S, 8-11 pts

[Finch]

We play virtually your suggested method, but the double of 1H is not necessarily particularly strong, just showing hearts while a 2H bid is constructive, just like 1C P 1S 2H.

I don't know if this is best, but it's simple. Dburn told us he likes to play double as simply 'a hand' i.e. often a weak NT type that suggests we might we want to get into the auction.

 

What's best depends a bit on the opponents - if you are playing me, then 1C may be a 10-count, and 1H may be a 0-count with long spades so you could easily have a simple 3NT on by power. If the opponents are playing 'standard' methods a 1C shows a solid opening with 1H a solid response, then perhaps your priorities should be different.

[Free]

(1C) P (1H)* ?

 

The heart response (or similarly 1D) is a transfer response. Is the following 4th chair scheme as good as any? Or is there a better one?

 

Double=overcall+ in strength with 5+ hearts

1S=takeout as if the auction had gone 1C-1S

2H=similar to a WJO which wouldn't have been available if they weren't playing the gadget.

Other bids same as if the auction had gone 1C-1S.

 

Seems simple enough for us simple people. Are we losing an opportunity?

That's ok, although I agree with Frances that Dbl can be lighter (rather for the lead)

[aguahombre]

I think I slopped up what I meant for double. It shows a hand in the minimum overcall range or better....not just better.

 

I think I fixed OP now.

[gnasher]

That's ok, although I agree with Frances that Dbl can be lighter (rather for the lead)

I think the main distinction should be suit quality - 2♥ shows what it would normally show, ie typically a decent six-card suit, but double is a five-card or poor six-card suit.

[olien]

Well, if they open 1♣ on all balanced hands out of range for 1NT, then I like the following defense:

 

e.g. (1♣)-p-(1♥*):

 

X = takeout of ♠ with ♣≥♦

1M = takeout of ♠ with ♦>♣

other bids are natural and 2NT shows ♥ + either minor (3♣=P/C, 3♦=GT in ♥)

 

This defense works well, and I know many won't like it because there are two takeout bids and the differentiation is in the relative minor-suit lengths, but this defense has worked well for me especially when we're able to accurately compete in ♣ and push them up a level and create a part-score swing.

[whereagles]

You can play it the same way as if defending a transfer pree, in which case there are two common schemes:

 

1. Dbl is penalty and cue is a take out dbl.

2. Dbl is take out of the real suit and cue is a michaels-like cue.

 

At level 1 you might want to consider a nice third possibility, which is to play

 

3. Dbl is take out of the real suit and cue is NATURAL.

 

Holding

 

AKJTx

xxx

Axxx

x

 

You would definitely want to overcall a natural 1♠ if it goes

 

1♣ pass 1♥ (spades) ??