gordontd Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 I've just noticed that some (but not all) of the lecture notes from the EBL Tournament Directors Course at San Remo are finally up on their website. In particular the discussion of "Serious Error" has been referred to here on several occasions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Cool. Thanks for the link, Gordon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iviehoff Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Truly historical documents. They appear to be dated 210. I am surprised by the document on Reveley Adjustments. Endicott says he knows of nothing that makes them illegal. Endicott seems to justify them on the grounds that the director is told to "do equity", and if he feels that a Reveley Score helps him do equity, then he should do it. By that argument, why not include a percentage of -730 and a bit of +10 if that also helps you do equity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordontd Posted July 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Truly historical documents. They appear to be dated 210.It does feel as though they've taken over 1800 years to appear. I am surprised by the document on Reveley Adjustments. Endicott says he knows of nothing that makes them illegal. Endicott seems to justify them on the grounds that the director is told to "do equity", and if he feels that a Reveley Score helps him do equity, then he should do it. By that argument, why not include a percentage of -730 and a bit of +10 if that also helps you do equity.I don't think his position on this matter is widely accepted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy69A Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 I don't think his position on this matter is widely accepted. Indeed it made a selection of the Laws & Ethics Committee froth at the mouth when it was said. Current English guidance is that these rulnigs are not acceptable(doesn't stop them all from happening of course.)I did a ruling at the Easter Festival a while ago and one of the committee wanted to give just such a ruling. When he was told he could not do so he railed at the stupidity of the law(or at least it's English interpretation) and roundly told off both me and my other appeal committee member for not deferring to a senior European figure(in his estimation anyway) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 I did a ruling at the Easter Festival a while ago and one of the committee wanted to give just such a ruling. When he was told he could not do so he railed at the stupidity of the law(or at least it's English interpretation) and roundly told off both me and my other appeal committee member for not deferring to a senior European figure(in his estimation anyway) "Told off", is it? Maybe it's just that I'm not fully awake, but this brash colonial would have told him where he could stick his "senior European figure". Or at least opined that if the tournament organizer felt his opinion was so all-fired important, they would have appointed him a committee of one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shintaro Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Indeed it made a selection of the Laws & Ethics Committee froth at the mouth when it was said. Current English guidance is that these rulnigs are not acceptable(doesn't stop them all from happening of course.)I did a ruling at the Easter Festival a while ago and one of the committee wanted to give just such a ruling. When he was told he could not do so he railed at the stupidity of the law(or at least it's English interpretation) and roundly told off both me and my other appeal committee member for not deferring to a senior European figure(in his estimation anyway) ooooooooo do tell all jeremy :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy69A Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Told off", is it? Maybe it's just that I'm not fully awake, but this brash colonial would have told him where he could stick his "senior European figure". Or at least opined that if the tournament organizer felt his opinion was so all-fired important, they would have appointed him a committee of one. I think I expressed myself sufficiently clearly. He went and told my wife that I was very arrogant not to realise I should defer to his vast experience(so I probably got through). As he is now departed from this planet we will forgive him. One of the things I hate most on appeal committees are those who think it is the time and place to change the law or the regulations rather than apply then in as fair a away as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamford Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 I don't think his position on this matter is widely accepted.Why "on this matter"? I don't think his position on revokes is widely accepted either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 As he is now departed from this planet we will forgive him. Is this true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy69A Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Is this true? Well it's true he is dead and in such circumstances it would be churlish to hold a grudge. If you ask me F2F I'll tell you who he was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Well it's true he is dead and in such circumstances it would be churlish to hold a grudge. If you ask me F2F I'll tell you who he was. Oh, sorry, I thought you meant Grattan, who was alive and well the first week of the Posnan tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy69A Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Oh, sorry, I thought you meant Grattan, who was alive and well the first week of the Posnan tournament. And long may he continue to be. He would never have behaved in that way; too much of a gentleman whatever his thoughts. Why "on this matter"? I don't think his position on revokes is widely accepted either. Well it was by the Appeal Committee in Poznan! Experience on the L&E has taught me that even if one doesn't agree Grattan is always worth listening to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluejak Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 He went and told my wife that I was very arrogant ...I am sure she was mightily impressed! :) :D :P The person to whom Jeremy referred gave an illegal decision of Ave+/Ave- in a Brighton midweek tournament. It took me some time to realise his committee had given Ave+ to the offenders and Ave- to the non-offenders! :rolleyes: :( :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 It took me some time to realise his committee had given Ave+ to the offenders and Ave- to the non-offenders! :rolleyes: :( :lol: I've always wanted to see such rulings...It might reduce the number of inane appeals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shintaro Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 :rolleyes: lol the same person said to me 'Do you know who I am' and of course got the steely response that I neither know nor care that is the ruling APPEAL if you dont like it B-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycroft Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 "Yes, you're South." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamford Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 lol the same person said to me 'Do you know who I am' and of course got the steely response that I neither know nor care <snip>I would reply, "I'm here to play bridge, not Botticelli". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterAlan Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 'Do you know who I am'Or, as the elderly nursing home resident said to the distinguished visitor who gently asked her the same question: "No, dear, but if you've forgotten Matron will tell you." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shintaro Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 I would reply, "I'm here to play bridge, not Botticelli". lol I was TD Paul but i like Peter Alans might use it :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburn Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 I observe that Ton Kooijman's paper on Adjusted Scores says (in my opinion) all that needs to be said about Reveley Rulings: In my opinion there is only one reasonable conclusion: for the offending side the adjusted score does not include any weight for a result realized by committing an unauthorized information infraction.Of course, this is not the full story. Suppose West "uses UI" to bid four spades over South's four hearts and his side scores well thereby. A Director or a Committee may cancel West's bid of four spades - but may still consider that East would (some or all of the time) bid four spades anyway after an in-tempo pass by West. In such a case, the Director or the Committee may make an adjustment based in whole or in part on a contract of four spades (doubled or not, according to circumstance) by East-West. I observe also that I have read Grattan's paper twice now, and I don't understand it. But this is to be expected: on a fifth reading I will perhaps have some idea of what it means, and by the eighth or ninth I may even be able to say whether I agree with it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 To be fair to Grattan, he has told me he agrees that one shouldn't give Reveley rulings, he just believes that they are legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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