Tataie Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 [hv=pc=n&e=saq83haq97dat975c&d=n&v=e&b=9&a=p1d2cp3cdp3sp]133|200[/hv]Pass , 4♠ or anything else ?IMP Teams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 4♠ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 I'd pass, i wld not blame anyone bidding game at imps though. Scoring wasnt mentioned. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 [hv=pc=n&e=saq83haq97dat975c&d=n&v=e&b=9&a=p1d2cp3cdp3sp]133|200|Tataie askedPass , 4♠ or anything else ? IMO...4♠ = 10, Pass = 6.Partner is likely to have five spades because he bid neither red suit and did not convert to penalties.[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Well, give pard a moderately bad hand like Kxxxxxxxxxxxx and game has chances. I'd bid it then. Can be very wrong though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 I'd pass, i wld not blame anyone bidding game at imps though. Scoring wasnt mentioned.Agree with pass...and disagree with not blaming anyone who bid 4. IMO opener has done a good job of describing his hand's potential, and to bid 4 is anti-partnership. Others might have doubled with less offensive strength and be uncomfortable trusting pard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Agree with pass...and disagree with not blaming anyone who bid 4. IMO opener has done a good job of describing his hand's potential, and to bid 4 is anti-partnership. Others might have doubled with less offensive strength and be uncomfortable trusting pard. I agree with this. I might bid 4 at Imps. "Partner is likely to have five spades because he bid neither red suit and did not convert to penalties."Sorry Nigel, but the above comment is really funny. Why would pd convert to penalties with a pile of rubbish? Why can't pd have a 4324 hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 It wouldn't occur to me to raise with this. How much less can I have for a double of 3♣ at this vulnerability? KxxxxxxxxxxxxIt seems unlikely that the opponents have subsided at the three level with 11 clubs and 21 HCP, including all the honours in their trump suit. Partner's most likely shape is 4324. If he has something like Kxxx xxx xx Qxxx, he'll be struggling to make 3♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Quickly bid 4♠, opps will sacrifice with 5♣ which will earn more than +140. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2200 Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Well, give pard a moderately bad hand like Kxxxxxxxxxxxx and game has chances. I'd bid it then. Can be very wrong though. They have 21 points and 11 clubs, and they stop at 3C? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 1. Kxxxx xxx xxx xx It seems unlikely that the opponents have subsided at the three level with 11 clubs and 21 HCP, including all the honours in their trump suit. 2. Partner's most likely shape is 4324. If he has something like Kxxx xxx xx Qxxx, he'll be struggling to make 3♠. 1. Well, make it 5323 then. 2. Got any sim data? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 2. Got any sim data?No, but I don't need any. If I did a simulation, one of the conditions would be that EW have fewer than ten clubs between them. That would make partner's likely shapes 4324, 5314 and 5224. Outside our hand there are 9 spades, 9 hearts and 8 diamonds. Without doing any arithmetic, it seems obvious that a 432 shape is more likely than a 531 or 522. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dake50 Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Q's under the opener, Diamonds not tricks, bad.Partner had a chance to 4S, he didn't, bad.My good trumps need to ruff clubs, bad.We got to our best scoring partial, good.Leave this one in 3S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 The risk/reward ratio is right(i.e. you are V) so take a shot. It would be a harder to justify if you were NV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OleBerg Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 Pass. Trust your partner. He would've bid 4♠ the majority of the times it's the right contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 "Partner is likely to have five spades because he bid neither red suit and did not convert to penalties." Sorry Nigel, but the above comment is really funny. Why would pd convert to penalties with a pile of rubbish? Why can't pd have a 4324 hand? Hilarious. :) It's the way I tell 'em. :) I'm assuming that your double doesn't promise four cards in both majors. I wrote "likely" not "certain". I stick by that opinion. I concede that partner's hand-shape could be 4324. But, IMO, partner will pass with some of those hands. And there seem to be more possible shapes for partner that include at least five spades. No, but I don't need any [simulations]. If I did a simulation, one of the conditions would be that EW have fewer than ten clubs between them. That would make partner's likely shapes 4324, 5314 and 5224. Outside our hand there are 9 spades, 9 hearts and 8 diamonds. Without doing any arithmetic, it seems obvious that a 432 shape is more likely than a 531 or 522. IMO, when speculating or performing simulations, you should trust partner's calls but you should place less reliance on assumptions about unknown opponents. For example, at teams, some opponents may decide to delay sacrificing, until you actually bid your vulnerable game. I agree with Pooltuna that the problem would be harder if you were not-vulnerable or playing match-pointed pairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tataie Posted July 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 The real deal[hv=pc=n&s=sj7hk43dkq6caj984&w=skt964hjt6dj3cq32&n=s52h852d842ckt765&e=saq83haq97dat975c&d=n&v=e&b=9&a=p1d2cp3cdp3sppdp4cdppp]399|300[/hv] Result 4♣x -2 = -8IMP There was also an opened thread for W bid after xhttp://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/46636-your-call/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Interesting. West had two earlier chances to do the right thing, and then was given a third by the opponents. All the comments about trusting partner after describing apparently don't apply to this partner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 They have 21 points and 11 clubs, and they stop at 3C?LOL Anyway, I pass 3♠, I'm not going to field partner's misbids, and 4♠ doesn't rate to play that great if partner only has 4♠: Club lead taps dummy, and partner still needs to set up the diamond suit and maintain control. When partner has 5♠, they should have a fairly bad hand... If they have the perfect hand, oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfa1010 Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 4♠, surely. Any hand with five spades gives some play. Our hand is huge with 1st round controls in all suits and strong trumps.Plus what Nigel said. On the other hand I don't see doubling 4♣ with a void. Are we playing partner for a little something or not? Why shoot for +100 when we could easily concede a doubled partscore? If it was meant as an "action double", it is better to just bid 4♠ with four of them and a void in their suit. Double should instead inply a strong 3451 or something similar. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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