what is 2nt?

[mike777]

1d p 1s 2h

p p 2nt

 

 

 

How do you all play 2NT here??? Would it matter if you were playing a big club system instead of standard, and your 1D was nebulous? You can assume support doubles are being played.

[helene_t]

Clubs and some diamond tolerance. 4135 or such.

[semeai]

This is natural, i.e. an invitational notrump hand with a stopper in hearts.

 

You could certainly agree otherwise. Some can't bid 2nt naturally in any competitive auction (or maybe any auction?!). Good/bad 2nt (i.e. lebensohl) would be useful here, for example.

 

That said, natural is in fact also useful.

[semeai]

Clubs and some diamond tolerance. 4135 or such.

 

I would double with this. I suppose you would double with my natural 2nt hand, though, so touché to me.

 

Added:

 

Likely your treatment is technically better, especially given that I'm over the 2H bidder here. I'd have a hard time coming up for a rule for when (my takeout) double and (natural) 2nt should be inverted like this into a cards double and takeoutish 2nt.

 

Do you (or others who play this way) have a succinct rule for this?

 

Perhaps your default for double in some broad category is cards (if so, what's your rule for that, if you have one?), and takeout is the bonus that the availability of 2nt gives you. I think of the natural 2nt as the bonus and takeout as the default.

[mike777]

I would double with this. I suppose you would double with my natural 2nt hand, though, so touché to me.

 

Added:

 

Likely your treatment is technically better, especially given that I'm over the 2H bidder here. I'd have a hard time coming up for a rule for when (my takeout) double and (natural) 2nt should be inverted like this into a cards double and takeoutish 2nt.

 

Do you (or others who play this way) have a succinct rule for this?

 

Perhaps your default for double in some broad category is cards (if so, what's your rule for that, if you have one?), and takeout is the bonus that the availability of 2nt gives you. I think of the natural 2nt as the bonus and takeout as the default.

 

 

Here is a general rule an old buddy just emailed me. You can see if you feel comfortable with it or not.

 

 

"Our general rule is that 2N is for T/O either if partner made a T/O DBL of 2M or if you passed on the previous round. So we would play 2N is natural here, but if the auction were

1D-(1S)-p-(2H/S)

P- ( P)-2N

 

 

Or

1D-(1S)-p-(S)

DBL-(P)-2N

 

 

Would both be T/O. Best to have a fairly simple, general rule(s) on this as there are lots of auctions."

[semeai]

Here is a general rule an old buddy just emailed me. You can see if you feel comfortable with it or not.

 

 

"Our general rule is that 2N is for T/O either if partner made a T/O DBL of 2M or if you passed on the previous round. So we would play 2N is natural here, but if the auction were

1D-(1S)-p-(2H/S)

P- ( P)-2N

 

 

Or

1D-(1S)-p-(S)

DBL-(P)-2N

 

 

Would both be T/O. Best to have a fairly simple, general rule(s) on this as there are lots of auctions."

 

Thanks. I didn't mean to come off as a stodge who always plays 2nt as natural. It seemed unclear to me how to have a rule that wasn't somehow very specific that allowed the inversion of double and 2nt on that auction. Maybe what's more surprising to me is the cards double than the 2nt for takeout.

 

In any case, I think we play similarly here, but maybe with slightly different rules:

 

1D (1S) P (2S)

P (P) 2N

 

This isn't natural because I can't have a natural notrump hand (I'd have bid 1NT, or have done something). I'd have to think whether my "I can't have a natural notrump hand" rule and your "passed last round" rule ever differ. I have a takeout double available here too, though, so 2NT suggests 2 places to play in this case. Sorry, not thinking. Double is penalty here as I didn't double last round.

 

1D (1S) P (2S)

X (P) 2N

 

Here I often do have the same rule that 2NT isn't natural over a double of 2M, but I'd call 2NT "scrambling" instead of "takeout," though I suppose you must mean the same thing as I do.

[semeai]

I seem to have gone a bit overboard yesterday. Everything I said made sense if the auction had been

 

1D (P) 1H (2S)

P (P)

 

Where inverting double and 2NT seems fine & interesting.

 

But on the actual auction double is needed as takeout as I can be 5-1-3-4 in addition to 4-1-3-5. I'd double with both (bidding 2NT over 2S with the latter as partner has only 2 spades then).My guess then is that Helene separates these two types into double and 2NT and has no systemic bid for natural 2NT hands (other than slight under/overbidding). Or maybe I should stop guessing.

[whereagles]

1d p 1s 2h

p p 2nt

 

1. How do you all play 2NT here???

2. Would it matter if you were playing a big club system instead of standard, and your 1D was nebulous?

3. You can assume support doubles are being played.

 

1. Although natural is a good use, I have it defined as a competitive, distributional hand (assuming pard remembers this lol). Probably a 64 with 6 clubs. A direct 3♣ would be forcing.

 

2. Probably not. A nebulous diamond and a sayc diamond on the min bal variant (seems like the case here) are actually very similar.

 

3. ugh!!

[helene_t]

I suppose you would double with my natural 2nt hand

I would double whenever I can tolerate anything p might bid (including bidding 3NT with a stopper and a little extra) and I am happy for him to pass with four hearts.

 

So with an 11 count with a heart stopper I would probably double. P will often bid 2♠ on a doubleton and then I can bid 2NT which is natural.

[P_Marlowe]

Good-Bad.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Free]

NAT