han Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Red against white. QxAJxxxQxxxxx RHO opens 1C, do you overcall? How close is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 1H, not close for me, but I guess you knew that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 I would pass. I think an over-call is unlikely to gain and could clearly loose in many ways. Among others you provide information to a gifted declarer in the play and at this vulnerability getting doubled can not be discounted. Also partner will expect a better hand and might drive you too high. If partner is on lead it is anything but clear that your side needs to start with a ♥ lead. Pass looks clearly better to me. Rainer Herrmann 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcD Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Pass, not close for me . Guess I now qualify as a conservative bidder. Bidding will be an occasional success when partner has a big heart fit but will lead to a lot of minuses (phantom defenses/ tip off declared on how to play the hand; so i guess pass is even clearer at MP)The 2 queens are really minus factors as is the like of intermediates in the heart suit. Same hand with spades , I would definitely consider bidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 yes please. I'm willing to bet a large amount of money that han also overcalled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted June 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 What if everybody is vulnerable, does that make a difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 by the way, there's not much point of bring for/against arguments in "overcall?" threads, they are mostly exactly the same, it's just that different posters draw the line at different hands. edit: there have been a number of funny/instructive threads that have said just about everything that there was to be said about this topic, but I've sadly lost my touch in searching. there was one where fred asked some good players whether they would overcall on some hand and jdonn half-seriously observed that old people were more likely to pass? 655321? could you find it? :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Depends on opps, pard and what I had to drink. Really a toss-up for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 1♥ wtp for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted June 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 by the way, there's not much point of bring for/against arguments in "overcall?" threads, they are mostly exactly the same, it's just that different posters draw the line at different hands. edit: there have been a number of funny/instructive threads that have said just about everything that there was to be said about this topic, but I've sadly lost my touch in searching. there was one where fred asked some good players whether they would overcall on some hand and jdonn half-seriously observed that old people were more likely to pass? 655321? could you find it? :( I've read the thread, I don't need to see it again. I'm still interested in what people do today with this hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Of course han. I never said that asking these questions is pointless. I said that the for/against arguments are generally the same, so talking about over and over again is not so interesting. I think these threads are useful in that you can find out where other people draw the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayin801 Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Overcall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 I overcall too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Even I overcall this one :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveharty Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Pass. Very close. Even the H9 might sway me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Of course han. I never said that asking these questions is pointless. I said that the for/against arguments are generally the same, so talking about over and over again is not so interesting. I think these threads are useful in that you can find out where other people draw the line.Maybe I am missing something and I do not know to which threads you are referring. None of the over-callers have so far given any arguments for their action, at least not in this thread. I find this pointless. For that we have polls The passers have. Rainer Herrmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 I just put in "overcall" in the search box, ticked the "titles only" box, and asked for sorting by replies in a decreasing order. Some results:http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/5436-do-you-overcall/http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/42811-do-you-overcall-1-diamond/http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/26154-worth-an-overcall/The reasons for overcalling are always the same (please note that they are written in random order, just as for the section below):-we might find a good partscore-we might find game-we might give partner a good idea of what to lead-we might find a good save-we might make opponent's lives harder in finding their best contract-it just seems to work/it makes me feel better-other stuff The reasons for passing are always the same:-we might go down in a partscore when opponents did not have a good partscore to make-partner might take us too high/double them because he was hoping for a non-minimum-our suit might make for a bad lead after all-our opponents might be pushed to a contract they might not have found-our opponents might stay away of a non-making game-they might play the hand better because of additional inferences thanks to our overcall-it just doesn't seem to work/it makes me feel sick-other stuff For almost every hand almost every reason above applies and when someone says "pass" they usually mean "pass because I think the reasons in the section below are, for this hand, more important than the ones above", and the opposite goes for someone who says "1H". I apologise if this counts as hijacking a thread or if I misrepresented/forgot some of the reasons - I did not mean either. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Pass, but its close. Our ODR really sucks, and our suit isn't that great. I'd probably overcall at any other colors, or if my suit were spades, or if I had the ♥T, or if I were 5422, or.... Thanks for the old threads Gwnn. I always enjoy reading everyone's thoughts from the past, even my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OleBerg Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 1♥ for me, but relatively close. Remove a Q, and I'm gone. The pro's and Con's of overcalling this type of hand has been discussed a gazillion times, here and elsewhere. Really no reason to repeat them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 sorry, it's me again... this was the thread I was thinking about http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/27250-balance/ the hand in question was AT9xx QJTx x xxx, 2nd hand all vul imps over 1♦. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 sorry, it's me again... this was the thread I was thinking about http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/27250-balance/ the hand in question was AT9xx QJTx x xxx, 2nd hand all vul imps over 1♦. Gwnn gets an auto upvote for fishing out these great old threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 sorry, it's me again... this was the thread I was thinking about http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/27250-balance/ the hand in question was AT9xx QJTx x xxx, 2nd hand all vul imps over 1♦.Is it me or is this link something completely different? Proves that the upvoters didn't even click on it. :P Btw, imo the hand you're describing is completely different from the one Han posted. It's unbalanced, it's short in opener's suit, and it has no rebid problems whatever partner bids. So yeah, it's useful to keep posting these hands, but the arguments are indeed always the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Free, you have to read the thread. The hand with AT9xx of spades was balancer's partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 much better intermediates and playing strength in that hand, csaba. clear overcall here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 This hand is a clear pass for me. A holding of 3 small in the opened suit and 2 unsupported Queens make for a very poor hand. This piece of trash bears little resemblance to some of the other hands from other threads; the arguments are similar though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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