What is your first bid here?

[rduran1216]

MP all red

 

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[rhm]

Realistically I will not be able to stop in 4♥ with this hand and I will stop below 6♥ only if partner admits to only one key-card. The issue is how to reach 7♥ with confidence.

You may be disappointed but I think there is a lot to be said for a beginner approach. Just bid RKB and if partner admits to 3 key cards bid 7♥.

 

This may have no or poor play if opener has 7 black cards without the ♣K or ♦KQ or perhaps 2=5=2=4 or 1=5=2=5 distribution without the former nor the ♠J.

 

But this is all remote. Meanwhile I give little information to the opponents.

 

Rainer Herrmann

[Cyberyeti]

Realistically I will not be able to stop in 4♥ with this hand and I will stop below 6♥ only if partner admits to only one key-card. The issue is how to reach 7♥ with confidence.

You may be disappointed but I think there is a lot to be said for a beginner approach. Just bid RKB and if partner admits to 3 key cards bid 7♥.

 

This may have no or poor play if opener has 7 black cards without the ♣K or ♦KQ or perhaps 2=5=2=4 or 1=5=2=5 distribution without the former nor the ♠J.

 

But this is all remote. Meanwhile I give little information to the opponents.

 

Rainer Herrmann

This is pretty sensible, if you have it available for this hand type, a strong 2♠ jump shift is not silly, or failing that a 4♦ splinter. The issue with bidding it scientifically is it may increase the probability of a club lead, which might mean that you have to choose whether to take the club finesse before finding out whether the spades break.

[manudude03]

I'd start with 2NT (assuming you play jacoby), if partner shows a stiff club, then you can just RKC and place the contract with confidence. If 4H is the balanced minimum (hopefully not...), then just RKC, but give up about 7 unless partner shows 3 key cards and the king of clubs (very unlikely). If partner bids something else, try and get partner to cuebid the clubs (at least the guy doubling will be opening leader :)) before going into RKC.

[blackshoe]

I like 2NT (Jacoby), followed by RKCB. Alternatively, just go straight to RKCB.

[jmcw]

Even if partner has the 3 missing Keys Grand Slam is by no means a lock. Success will depend largely on openers ♣ holding.

 

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Slam depends on holding the ♣ losers to 1

 

make it a bit better

 

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The Grand needs 3 discards or something good in ♣

 

 

So, bidding slowly has significant advantage here, if opener shows a ♣ suit then the length AND quality of his ♣ will determine whether the Grand should be considered.

 

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I'll take a shot at 7 with this hand

 

Over 1♥ I'm bidding 1♠ and over a 2♣ rebid I'll force with 2♦ and go from there. If partner does not rebid 2♣ I'll continue with RKC.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I like 2NT (Jacoby), followed by RKCB. Alternatively, just go straight to RKCB.

Agree... this hand is much too strong for a splinter ( as much as I luv splinters ).

[2200]

Both splinter and Jacoby are wrong. 2S will be a good descriptive start. If pd is strong in H, you can easily reach 6/7 anyway, however, when he has sth like

 

Jx

Axxxx

AKQx

Kx

 

you need to bid source of tricks.

[Hanoi5]

I'd start with 1♠.

[mtvesuvius]

I like 1♠. My plan is to GF and hopefully get partner to cuebid the ♣K if he has it... Starting with 2N eats up too much room and won't gain anything.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

If you don't play 2S as a SJS w/4 card support, then the only way is some form of Jac2NT -- eventho you don't like to use it with shortness in your own hand. [ We've already discredited a splinter here ] .

 

The odds are Opener has length in Diam ( not Cl )... something like the following which has very good play for 13 tricks:

x

A K x x x

A K x x x

x x

 

1H - 2NT!

4D! ( 2nd "good" 5 card suit ) - 4NT ( 03 14 .. )

5C - 5NT ( specific K-ask )

6D - 7H

 

And a minimum Opener has good play for 12 tricks:

x

A K x x x

A x x x

x x x

 

1H - 2NT!

3S! ( shortness ) - 4NT

5C - 5NT

6H ( no outside K ) - pass

 

However, the following minimum Opener has no play for 12 with a Cl lead:

x

A K x x x

K Q x x

x x x

 

..but I don't know how to "slowly" explore after:

1H - 1S

2D - 3C!

?? ( and Opener still doesn't know of Responder's Ht support ).

 

I also don't know what Meckwell would do with their "pet" sequence after 2D :

1H - 1S

2D - 2S! ( artificial GF )

??

[daveharty]

Starting with 2N eats up too much room and won't gain anything.

It does eat up a lot of room but if partner is able to make an immediately descriptive rebid, e.g. 4C or 3S or something, isn't that pretty useful info? Meanwhile if you start with 1S, isn't partner going to have trouble later on evaluating, for example, xxx in spades? I guess it's true that partner will often have a minimum here, so if you start with Jacoby the auction will often go 1H-2NT-4H which isn't ideal. But I don't think you're really concerned about five-level safety here, so even that might be fine.

[jillybean]

My first concern is to show partner I have 4 card support and a gf hand. I'm not going to cloud the auction by showing my spades first.

As others have said the hand is too good for a splinter so I'll happily bid (modified) J2N.

[jmcw]

My first concern is to show partner I have 4 card support and a gf hand. I'm not going to cloud the auction by showing my spades first.

As others have said the hand is too good for a splinter so I'll happily bid (modified) J2N.

 

Showing partner you have 4 card support GF, is mainly lip service! You are in effect taking control of the auction, and he will be along for the ride!, he will be answering questions according to your follow up bids.

If partner has shortness it will most likely be ♠, how do you like your hand now?, or if he is flat and bids 4♥ what next?

[jillybean]

Showing partner you have 4 card support GF, is mainly lip service! You are in effect taking control of the auction, and he will be along for the ride!, he will be answering questions according to your follow up bids.

If partner has shortness it will most likely be ♠, how do you like your hand now?, or if he is flat and bids 4♥ what next?

I'm happy to take control, we play a modified J2N so I don't need to ask partner where her shortness is.

 

1♥:2N

3♣*:3♠*

 

3♣ minimum hand, with shortness, 3♠ cue, now partner will make the cheapest cue available.

[whereagles]

My first bid is 4NT. Will drive to the grand if all keys are there.

[mgoetze]

If you don't play 2S as a SJS w/4 card support,

 

I would be shocked if anyone played it as anything else, but in that very hypothetical case...

 

then the only way is some form of Jac2NT -- eventho you don't like to use it with shortness in your own hand. [ We've already discredited a splinter here ] .

 

...I am simply blown away by the stringent logic being applied here.

[whereagles]

My first concern is to show partner I have 4 card support and a gf hand.

 

Thing is, you don't have to show anything. Just look at your hand: you know everything you need to know. It's time to make decisions, not descriptions. As a rule, you should not be doing descriptive bids if you can take charge. This seems to be the case here.

[Mbodell]

Over 1♥ I'm bidding 1♠ and over a 2♣ rebid I'll force with 2♦ and go from there. If partner does not rebid 2♣ I'll continue with RKC.

 

A very likely rebid from partner over 1♠ is 2♦. I'm not sure how you propose to RKC in hearts after that.

[mtvesuvius]

The key is that we want to extract information about partner's hand. We are the captain of the auction, and partner doesn't need to know what we have. We simply need to manipulate the auction to find out the necessary information to make a decision. This is why I am not a fan of 2N -- We don't rate the get the right information, and will get too high before we can make an informed decision.

 

1♠ allows us to hopefully be able to find out some about partner's shape then hopefully set trump and cuebid... Worse comes to worse, we can launch into keycard at some point.

 

LOL @ the idea of 2♠ as a SJS with 4 card support.

[the hog]

If you play sjs, then 2S looks obvious. If not, I wpould bid 1S on this hand. I think j2nt is a big mistake as unless your follow ups are really well defined, you will not gain much. j2nt should be reserved for more balanced hands imo.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I would be shocked if anyone played it as anything else, but in that very hypothetical case...

 

...I am simply blown away by the stringent logic being applied here.

Does anyone recall this hand from November of last year:

Partner opens 1H and you hold:

A K J 10 8

A 10 5 2

6

J 9 2

 

Look familiar?

 

The thread title was:

Splinter or Jacoby 2NT? Pick your poison ... by masse24

 

http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/42898-splinter-or-jacoby-2nt/

 

The 1H - 2Sjump was also discussed.

 

ArtK78 quoted from a Steve Robinson article ( listed by peachy ):

"When you use Jacoby 2NT, you want to become the captain. When you splinter you want opener to become the captain. In other words, you Jacoby 2NT when you want to learn about openers hand. You splinter when you want opener to learn about your hand."

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Edit: Unfortunately, like so many of these threads, the OP never did post the parent hand to see what would have worked best .

Edited June 26, 2011 by TWO4BRIDGE

[jillybean]

Thing is, you don't have to show anything. Just look at your hand: you know everything you need to know. It's time to make decisions, not descriptions. As a rule, you should not be doing descriptive bids if you can take charge. This seems to be the case here.

Now add the rest of my comment "I'm not going to cloud the auction by showing my spades first."

I don't see a good reason to misdescribe my hand and after not starting with a 4 card spade heart raise it could be difficult to persuade partner that I have this hand. I like to keep him in the loop, not in the dark.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

A very likely rebid from partner over 1♠ is 2♦. I'm not sure how you propose to RKC in hearts after that.

Good point.

[MrAce]

2♠ is unfortunately not available for me since we play it 9-11 6 cards nat and invitation. Having said that, i'd start with 1♠ but i can't say i have disagreements with other replies.

 

One thing about 4 card fit+ natural sjs bids, i LOVE it, and we use it by passed hand and or in competition, however it just never comes, and when it does, it doesn't make an "OMG" effect on the result. When i play something that comes very rare, i expect it to make a huge difference in the decision. I may have had unlucky frequency experience with it perhaps, idk.