jschafer Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 [hv=pc=n&s=sqj8743hj64dq85c2&w=sa92ht8dk9cakt764&n=st6hkq972da7643c9&e=sk5ha53djt2cqj853&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=p3sp(hesitation)pdp5cppp]399|300[/hv]The director was called before dummy came down to draw attention to West's hesitation before East's balancing double (a passed hand). 5♣ made 11 tricks, do you call the director again feeling you have been damaged or not? IMP scoring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 I definitely call the director and will feel a little disappointed if he doesn't rule in our favour. It depends a bit on the opps though I guess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wank Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 auto ruleback to 3♠. double is definitely a minority action, and certainly not the 80+%ish action which effectively the rules require. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 auto ruleback to 3♠. double is definitely a minority action, and certainly not the 80+%ish action which effectively the rules require. I respectfully disagree. The hesitation followed by double is not the issue in any way. The action taken by West is and if West did something funny like 4♣ expecting pard to be light because of the hesitation and landed on his feet I would fry him as the Director. 5♣ is reasonable (so is 3nt) after the double. Bidding game is absolutely on with those cards and the chosen action probably comes with the most risk. It takes no advantage due to the slowness of the double. No foul unless West hesitated before passing 3♠ and East used that UI to make the balancing double. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgoetze Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 I respectfully disagree. ...because apparently you didn't read the OP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunnyGo Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 No foul unless West hesitated before passing 3♠ and East used that UI to make the balancing double. So....there's a foul. Yes, there's been damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveharty Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Was this hesitation agreed to by EW? I don't know what the rules are where you were playing, but here in ACBL-land, West is supposed to pause for 8-10 seconds after a skip bid has been made. Of course, there are pauses and there are pauses...but a "hesitation" is not necessarily cut and dried. That being said, if the director determined that there had indeed been a hesitation, I agree that it should be rolled back to 3S. Double is nowhere near automatic with the East hand. If EW appealed such a ruling, they should be given an AWM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jschafer Posted June 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 East denied the hesitation, West admitted to it so I don't know whether that qualifies as a hesitation or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Assuming the hesitation actually occurred and is agreed to, I definitely think I've been damaged, and would be amazed if I was ruled against here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMB1 Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 I know not everyone does this, but I would ask about the "stop" procedure:was it followed, was the hesitation longer than the regulation "10 seconds"? If East or West admits there was a hesitation (by West) unmistakably longer that the "stop" procedure, then ruling to 3♠ looks routine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycroft Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 I would argue that with a likely dead ♠K (which, guess what, isn't), that double is not a clear call. Oddly enough, if the ♠K were dead, 5♣ probably doesn't make. Put the ♠K in any other suit, and I think E-W, even with an acknowledged hesitation, have a case. Whether it flies or not, I don't know. I keep my direct overcalls of preempts sound, however, much sounder than what looks like current expert opinion; this looks only like a biddable minimum because it's all controls - if I could bid it at the 3 level I probably would, but think that I might be disappointing partner. Irrelevant to all of that, I would call the TD as South, and as East, for that matter (if I as east noticed the hesitation). This is definitely the kind of hand where "I think any other call is (not, if I'm South) unreasonable, but I know I'm biased." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 ...because apparently you didn't read the OP. I read part of it.... the wrong part. Oops! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 Schafer, i been chief TD of Turkey for 3 years, trained by Ton Kojman (i hope i spelled his name correct) who was hired by TBF. Imo If hesitation is confirmed, you are % 100 damaged. Pass is East's logical alternative. Simple as is. The level of opponents (East player),may affect the decision of TD about the additional ethique penalty, it wont affect his ruling the board result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 Kooijman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordontd Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 East denied the hesitation, West admitted to it so I don't know whether that qualifies as a hesitation or not.West was clear that he had broken tempo (I was the director), so I would have ruled on the basis that there was UI, had I been called back to the table. Then I would have polled a few people to see what they would have done with the East hand in an auction with no tempo-break, and I would expect that to show Pass as a logical alternative at this vulnerability & form of scoring. But I wasn't called back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordontd Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 i been chief TD of Turkey for 3 years, trained by Ton Kojman (i hope i spelled his name correct) who was hired by TBF. There are a number of well-qualified directors here, but I think we expect more of them than that they just claim status. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jschafer Posted June 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 West was clear that he had broken tempo (I was the director), so I would have ruled on the basis that there was UI, had I been called back to the table. Then I would have polled a few people to see what they would have done with the East hand in an auction with no tempo-break, and I would expect that to show Pass as a logical alternative at this vulnerability & form of scoring. But I wasn't called back.I should have called you back again (3rd time for this hand!) but I was too distracted by all the food they were just bringing down :P I posted this as more of a sanity check because RHO seemed confident that 3♠ was clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 I assume you mean double of 3S? This being the same player who denied the hesitation... Sounds like an extremely ethical player from this report, not that one can draw conclusions from a single incident only told from one side. Most likely Gordon knows whether this is an isolated case or not but is not allowed to tell us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jschafer Posted June 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 I don't think RHO was unethical and definitely didn't post this to suggest otherwise. It is not always obvious what qualifies as a hesitation after a jump bid and whether or not you should balance on certain hands. I like to think that the number of players who genuinely feel their bids were normal (even if minority views), outnumbers those that act on UI and then deny it hoping to get away with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 There are a number of well-qualified directors here, but I think we expect more of them than that they just claim status. Actually i shd have written "I was..." Since i live in USA the last 10 years. I just wanted OP to know that my opinion was not just as a player but also as someone who had some serious training on the subject. It wasnt my intention to claim status or i would be writing in the sections that are designated for rulings and bridge laws, but i see your point, sorry it looked that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 Did you use you stop-card? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossoneri Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 Did you use you stop-card? :) Having played against Jorrit, and the fact that he has played in ol' Blighty for coming to 4 years now, I'm pretty confident that he did. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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