billw55 Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 [hv=pc=n&s=sk98hat2dt98654cj&w=sj75hkj843dj3ckq5&n=sat6h9765dq2ct874&e=sq432hqdak7ca9632&d=n&v=e&b=9&a=p1cp1hp1sp]399|300[/hv] and west's rebid is ... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 a heavy 1NT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjbrr Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 I'd try 2NT. We have 11 with KQx of ♣. Seems like enough to invite. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjbrr Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Also if 1♠ promises an unbalancedish hand, partner is either going to have ♦ length or he will raise ♥ next, so I'm not too worried about my ♦ holding. And Jx is certainly better than xx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 I was toying with the idea of bidding 2♦ as partner might have the reds reversed, but then I guess partner can pattern out just the same with 3♥ over 2NT, so that's better. And of course there's also the fact that 2♦ is FG and we don't exactly hold that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 2NT for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiddity Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 If opener promises an unbalanced hand I would bid 3♣ (especially if he would always open 1♦ with 4144). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Good advertisement for 1♠ to show an unbalanced hand. Then, 3♣ is a sensible value bid. I don't know what I would do. 2N is right on values, but with Jx in the unbid suit, and no trick source, I don't like it. 3♣ is also OK, but it seems excessive when we might have a 4-3 fit. Put me down for 1N at MPs and 3♣ at IMPs. I'm going to go wash my hands now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 This is why American bidding is a complete mystery to me, as this is a 2♦ wtp from where I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 1nt given OP but Prefer to open east hand with 1nt and live with the issues with offshape 1nt openings.Note most of my hcp are in my unbid suits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 This is why American bidding is a complete mystery to me, as this is a 2♦ wtp from where I am. 2D 4sf? Many, not just US players play 4sf as a gf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Are we allowed to use random conventions here? how about some xyz? 2♣-2♦2♥-3NT I'm not a giant fan of bypassing 1♠ after a 1♥ response, though it is playable and would help with a rebid here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Judging from some comments, did the thread change? What exactly do people think opener's opening bid is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegmund Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 One reason among many that I prefer 2D FSF to be 1 round rather than game. Have never understood why people even considered FSF(game) to be playable. If you impose 2D FSF(game) and invitational jumps on me, I am endplayed into jumping to 3C on this, but I am not happy about it. I have real sympathy for the heavy-1NT folk. (And none at all for the argument that the 1C opener is likely to have diamonds covered, as an excuse for things like jumping to 2NT.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Also if 1♠ promises an unbalancedish hand, partner is either going to have ♦ length or he will raise ♥ next, so I'm not too worried about my ♦ holding. And Jx is certainly better than xx. This post is a mysterie to me, can't partner have a 4-2-2-5 shape? If partner promises an unbalanced hand, doesn't that make 2NT less attractive? I agree with Phil, if partner promises an unbalanced hand then 3C is best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgoetze Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Good advertisement for ... playing something artificial like XYZ after this sequence. ;) One reason among many that I prefer 2D FSF to be 1 round rather than game. Have never understood why people even considered FSF(game) to be playable. I used to think FSF(1r) might be a valid alternative. Then I played it once with a partner who always plays it. I bid 4th suit, she makes some nondescript bid, and we get to the wrong spot. Afterwards I notice she has a completely obvious higher bid for patterning out and ask her why she didn't bid that. She says she was afraid of getting too high. Have hated FSF(1r) ever since. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 again 1s was not alerted so i think we cannot assume 1s is unbal. btw in general 1s is not unbal in walsh/. However I do think we need to know if pard can often be 10 or 11. Hence my 1nt here. -------------- I still prefer 1nt offshape opening by pard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 It is either 2NT or 3C, depends on the agreements in place. If you have agreed, that 1S showes an unbal. hand, you know opener has 5 clubs,so you have a fit and inv. values => 3C. If 1S can still be based on a weak NT type hand, show the bal. nature of your hand=> 2NT. Given the fact, that you have lots of Jacks and no Aces, you can downgrade teh handto 10 HCP, i.e. below inv. strength, in which case your choices are 1NT or 2C.I would not do it, but a case can be made, and if partner mentiones the reason, why hedecided to downgrade, this will be ok with me. Also if you regular open light, than this is also a reason to bid only 1NT. With kind regardsMarlowe PS: Yes - just read the suggestion to bid 2D, FSF - if you happen to play FSF as inv.+this is certainly a hand for this bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 yes my partners are often: AKxx...x...xxx....Axxxx or worse. Hence the need to open 1nt w ith that hand or reply 1nt with responders hand. OTOH if pard is going to often have 14-16 with that shape I better bid more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 One reason among many that I prefer 2D FSF to be 1 round rather than game. Have never understood why people even considered FSF(game) to be playable. One problem with playing 2♦ as "invitational or stronger" is that if opener rebids 3♣ to show a sixth club we don't know if he has extra values or not. I suppose one could play 3♦ by opener now as showing extra values and not the right shape for a 3NT, 3♥ or 3♠ bid. Another problem is that if 2♥ by opener is nonforcing he would have to bid 3♥ with extra values and three hearts. That is a lot of space to take away without clarifying whether he has a diamond stop or not. Or with a diamond stopper, six clubs and slight extras he would have to bid 3NT, not showing the extra club length. I suppose one could play FSF as forcing for only one round in the specific sequence 1♦-1♥1♠-2♣*with the agreement that it is forcing to 2NT and that responder can make a second relay by bidding the first step over a 2♦ or 2♥ response to FSF. But it is a lot of hassle compared to the simple agreement that FSF is always a GF. And in this specific sequence it is probably simpler to play XYZ, especially if you already play XYZ over a 1NT rebid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted June 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 Interesting. When this was played, my expert (?) partner rebid 2♥, and when I questioned this he maintained that any NT call absolutely promises a stopper in the fourth suit (diamonds). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 Expert partners say the strangest things here on the forums... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 Expert partners say the strangest things here on the forums... hmm... maybe we need a separate thread/blog/forum title "Experts say the darndest things!" A little compendium of genius BBO quotes (I really should start writing down some of the stuff I see online). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 Why is everyone talking about "good advertisement for blabla" and "if 1♠ is unbalanced". It's not unbalanced, otherwise it would've been alerted, and there aren't any special agreements, otherwise it would've been stated by the OP. You might as well claim you're in a GF situation after East opened a strong 15+HCP 1♣ and West bid a GF 1♥ response. Come on, this is the beginner/intermediate forum. The hand isn't that nice, you've got a lot of Quacks so a downgrade is definitely possible. I like a heavy 1NT because it smells like a misfit and we're not strong enough to force to game. The only alternative imo is 2NT which gets risky without a ♦ stopper. Your expert partner is not as expert as you think Bill. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 Why is everyone talking about "good advertisement for blabla" and "if 1♠ is unbalanced". It's not unbalanced, otherwise it would've been alerted, and there aren't any special agreements, otherwise it would've been stated by the OP. You might as well claim you're in a GF situation after East opened a strong 15+HCP 1♣ and West bid a GF 1♥ response. Come on, this is the beginner/intermediate forum. The hand isn't that nice, you've got a lot of Quacks so a downgrade is definitely possible. I like a heavy 1NT because it smells like a misfit and we're not strong enough to force to game. The only alternative imo is 2NT which gets risky without a ♦ stopper. Your expert partner is not as expert as you think Bill. ;)Because in half the bridge world, 1♠ is always unbalanced (well strictly not balanced, 4225 is possible but considered semi balanced by the EBU and others) and this is unalertable, you rebid 1N with balanced hands. It would also be considered completely absurd to bid 1N over 1♠ without a diamond stop in many places. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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