Leaping Michaels after multi

[kgr]

[hv=pc=n&s=sak432hkdckqjt932&n=sq765ha432dq432c4&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=2d(Multi)p2h(Pass/correct)4c(Leaping%20Michaels)p4d(Asks%20Major)p4sppp]266|200|MP'S[/hv]

1) Who do you blame for not reaching 6? How should the bidding go?

2) We have the agreement that 4♦ asks the major & 4♥/4♠ is a control bid for ♣. Not sure if that is the best agreement. What do you play after Leaping Michaels?

[paulg]

What do you play after Leaping Michaels?

I asked the same question recently, some good answers in this thread.

[Zelandakh]

As far as I can see the thread only deals with the case where partner's major is known. One option for this case might be:-

 

4D = general slam try

... 4M = that major and minimum

... 4N = hearts and extras

... 5C = spades and extras

4M = pass/correct

4N = RKCB for clubs

 

...but I cannot say I have tested this personally and it seems a little much to remember such a method for such a rare and specific auction (unless it is written down for you as in the ACBL anyway!). Probably best to use whichever meta-rules apply and live with it.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I asked the same question recently, some good answers in this thread.

As Zel said the major is unknown... thus making it difficult for efficient Leaping Michaels' follow-ups.

 

Now if the given hand where in SECOND seat, Danny Kleinman's Multi-defense for Leaping Michaels ( w/♠) is to PASS 2D! first and then bid 4m! next ( over Opener's 2H rebid ) showing the big Spade/minor hand.

For the big Hts/minor hand in 2nd seat, one bids Leaping micheals immediately.

 

But obviously you can't do that in 4th seat.

[Free]

I find it rather odd to play leaping michaels this way, since 2♦ isn't natural. I'd rather consider the P/C bid as the natural suit and bid 4♣ showing ♣+♠ (just like Dbl is takeout for ♥). If responder bids 2♠ P/C, then 4m shows m+♥.

 

North has a 4 card fit to the Q, and a side suit Ace. I guess he should move over 4♠. For South it's more difficult to judge imo. South has a lot of extra distribution but he has to show his Major suit. Should he bid 5♠ on this? Or use 4NT and 5♣ to show the respective Major and extra length in ♣?

[WellSpyder]

As Zel said the major is unknown... thus making it difficult for efficient Leaping Michaels' follow-ups.

Is the major really unknown? Can't you assume after (2♦) P (2♥) 4m that 4th seat has ♠s as well as the minor? If you have ♥s and a minor you "know" opener has ♠s so you can pass over 2♥ and wait to bid Leaping Michaels' on the next round.

 

Disclaimer: I should warn you that I lost 1350 aggregate points by working on this assumption in a match last night when my partner didn't, so perhaps it is a bit dangerous! Pivot teams, so a relatively unpractised partnership, but having agreed Leaping Michaels' over weak 2s. Partner bid 4♦ after (2♦) P (2♥) and I assumed this also showed ♠s based on the argument above. 4♠x went for -800 when 5♦ (or 3N) makes - partner assumed that Leaping Michaels didn't apply since the major was unknown, and just had ♦s. Ouch! As is often pointed out, it's more important to have a partnership agreement than to have the best system... Teammates were -550 when 5♦x made.

 

Free posted while I was writing this - looks like he has the same idea about which major you are showing here.

Edited June 21, 2011 by WellSpyder

[Zelandakh]

You can play it that way but you are rather leaving yourself open to the sequence

2D - P - 2H - P

2S - P - 4S - ?

 

Essentially you have frittered away the advantage that their opening a multi (instead of a weak 2S) gave you. To be honest though it is more important to have an agreement than anything, as Spyder's example perhaps shows best of all.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Is the major really unknown? Can't you assume after (2♦) P (2♥) 4m that 4th seat has ♠s as well as the minor? If you have ♥s and a minor you "know" opener has ♠s so you can pass over 2♥ and wait to bid Leaping Michaels' on the next round.

 

Free posted while I was writing this - looks like he has the same idea about which major you are showing here.

After thinking about what you said, I tend to agree:

 

( 2D! ) - p - ( 2H ) - 4m! = ♠ / bid-minor, big 2-suiter

 

and:

( 2D! ) - p - ( 2H ) - PASS

( 2S ) - p - ( p ) - 4m! = ♥ / bid-minor

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

Edit: What do you do after the following ♥-invite auction by the opps:

( 2D! ) - p - ( 2S! ) - ??

Edited June 21, 2011 by TWO4BRIDGE

[whereagles]

I wouldn't blame anyone. You can't guess all the time right after a pree. If something it's South, who has extras, who could make a move over 4♦.

[Finch]

As Zel said the major is unknown... thus making it difficult for efficient Leaping Michaels' follow-ups.

 

Now if the given hand where in SECOND seat, Danny Kleinman's Multi-defense for Leaping Michaels ( w/♠) is to PASS 2D! first and then bid 4m! next ( over Opener's 2H rebid ) showing the big Spade/minor hand.

For the big Hts/minor hand in 2nd seat, one bids Leaping micheals immediately.

 

But obviously you can't do that in 4th seat.

 

On the second seat problem, the suggested method doesn't work. If you have a big hand with clubs and a spades, and pass over 2D, you might find that 2D has ended the auction.

In second seat, we play

 

2D - 4C = clubs and hearts; 4D = clubs and spades

 

It's a little safer to pass over 2D with very long diamonds, so we play

2D P 2M P nM 4C = diamonds and hearts, 4D = diamonds and spades (including if this isn't a jump)

[MrAce]

On the second seat problem, the suggested method doesn't work. If you have a big hand with clubs and a spades, and pass over 2D, you might find that 2D has ended the auction.

 

Depends on pdship agreements, as far as i read some top pair's competitive notes it is specifically agreed that if enemy opens an artificial 2 level bid such as Multi, Flannery etc.. and the other one passes, they will not play it undoubled. Due to some part of their defense vs those openings starts with "pass and then bid". So they cant afford to let it passed out.

[Finch]

Well, I hope these pairs alert the pass of 2D, because now of course it gives responder all sorts of options when he can pass 2D in the hope of a penalty because the opponents "can't" pass it out.