jules101 Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 [hv=pc=n&s=st86hakq73dcakq62&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=4dpp]133|200[/hv] Your bid. Please explain your decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 4♥. Or 4NT. Looking forward to more educated bids, I need support and spade control for a slam (in fact 3 small spades in partner's hand, even Kxxx, means possible 3 losers in the suit) so I think 4NT might be a bit too much. But maybe that's just pessimistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VM1973 Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 If we assume that the opening bidder has 8♦ to justify his bed and you have 0 that means the opponents should have a 10-card fit (I assume that responder would have raised if he'd had 3+♦) so assuming partner has an uninspiring 4♠-3-3-3 you should still bid because there will be 18 trumps on the deal. If 18 trumps = 18 tricks, then you can assume that if responder will go down 2 (+500) you're still better in 4♥ (+620). As to WHAT exactly you should bid, I think that depends on your partnership agreements. Some people play doubles at that high level are penalty, while others play it's takeout. If 4NT means 2 lower unbid, then that could work too, but some people might think it's Blackwood. Holding 4 Quick Tricks I'd say pass is out. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 4♥ for me. Pre-empts work. If pard is looking at a few ♦ and the cards I need for slam, she might be able to move, maybe not. More importantly, if pard bids 4♠ I'll know they mean it and I can move. If I start with Dbl and pard bids 4♠ I have no idea if we are in a good spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 4♥, passing when we have at least 9 maybe 10 tricks in our own hand is insane. Bidding 4N or double could work out, but they will leave us with much worse guesses on the next round -- If we bid 4N, and hear 5♣ or 5♥, we still won't know whether to raise (Although it will in theory be rightsided). If we double, and hear 4♠ from partner, what now? If we double and partner passes we aren't very happy either, since all our HCP and tricks will have to come from our long suits, which LHO rates to be short in. Even if partner bids 4♥ over the double, we still might not have 5 level safety, although I think 5♦ is definitely warranted then. In any case, this is an interesting problem, and pre-empts do work sometimes... Especially 4m ones, which I find very rarely backfire, and often win a lot of IMPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 Holding 4 Quick Tricks I'd say pass is out. Was this the original post or did it change while I was out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 Was this the original post or did it change while I was out?I'm pretty sure it was "this" when I made my post, but perhaps I am hallucinating... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules101 Posted June 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 I'm pretty sure it was "this" when I made my post, but perhaps I am hallucinating... Yes - no changes to original post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 4NT, two places to play, and pull 4♠ to 5♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 Basically IMO you are screwed into Xing because you have 3 places to play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjbrr Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 I'd double because it's the most flexible action. If partner passes we don't necessarily hate it, and it's possible that spades is the right strain. No matter what we do, we won't be in a good spot to judge what to do next, so I'll let partner in on the decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antrax Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 4NT, two places to play, and pull 4♠ to 5♣.Do you mean you'll pull 5♠ to 6♣? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 Do you mean you'll pull 5♠ to 6♣?LOL @ me I was confusing auction after x ... :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 4♥, we might miss a better ♠ fit, but sometimes preempts work. Dbl is definitely an alternative, but I don't want partner to bid 4♠ with 4♠-3♥. 4♥ will usually be playable even if he has 5♠-2♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 [hv=pc=n&s=st86hakq73dcakq62&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=4dpp]133|200| IMO_X (take-out) = 10, 4♥ = 9, 4N = 7.You aim for the best result possible, rather than the best possible result.Double is flexible - With equal length in the majors, you hope partner will bid 4♥4♠ on a 4-3 fit is not necessarily any worse than 4♥ on a 5-1 or 5-2 fit because. with ♠ trumps, partner will be ruffing in the short hand.4N may improve the chance of playing in the right strain but increases the level.Sometimes partner will pass the double and that may even be the correct decision.[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgoetze Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 I agree with 4♥, but X is not absurd. 4NT will get us too high for no particularily good reason some of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VM1973 Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Was this the original post or did it change while I was out?No, that was in the original post. As I said, pass is out, by which I mean that passing is not a viable option. It appears as though 4 people didn't like the post. I don't know why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 I'd often double with this shape but here I think that 4H is considerably better than double. If partner bids 4S over the double I think you often belong in 4H, more often than not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 4♥ is clear (to me anyway). 4N is natural for me over a 4m preempt, so that is not an option. Even if it were is everyone really comfortable that 4N-->5♥ shows this kind of hand? I don't understand double unless I were planning on taking another call over 4♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexJonson Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 No, that was in the original post. As I said, pass is out, by which I mean that passing is not a viable option. It appears as though 4 people didn't like the post. I don't know why. It looks like at least one read the post as 'pass it out' rather than 'pass is out'. Also it may be that talking about things depending on partnership agreements attracted disapproval. You may have committed other crimes I don't know about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 I don't understand double. I don't like it either, but not understanding it seems a little dense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VM1973 Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 It looks like at least one read the post as 'pass it out' rather than 'pass is out'. Also it may be that talking about things depending on partnership agreements attracted disapproval. You may have committed other crimes I don't know about.Well for me, double is out (of the question) because most partners I've had play double as penalty from 3NT on up and the hand may be many things, but a penalty double of 4♦ it is not. A lot of bids could work out. Partner might have ♠Axxxx ♥xx ♦xxx ♣xxxx and 4♠ or 5♣ might play very well with 4♥ an inferior place. On the other hand, considering the preempt, a very reasonable 4♥, 4♠ or 5♣ contract might run into 4-1 or 5-0 breaks. If I had the 4NT = 2 lower unbid agreement, that would be my preferred call. Otherwise you just take one of the suits and bid something in it. There aren't many ways to show a great two-suiter with one bid starting at the 4 level. The problem with a straight shot bid of 4♥ is your partner might well have ♠AKJx ♥x ♦xxxx ♣xxxx and you get a 4-2, 5-1 or even 6-0 break to top it off. 4NT might get you too high, but at least you land in a sensible contract. Plus, if it's matchpoints, you have to face the possibility that other tables opened only 3♦ and so your hand got to bid both suits. Even a 4NT Blackwood might work out well if partner responded that he held 2 aces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules101 Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Ah well - no consensus it seems....... [hv=pc=n&s=st86hakq73dcakq62&w=sq9h95dakj75432ct&n=sakj32h642d96cj97&e=s754hjt8dqt8c8543&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=4dpp4hppp]399|300[/hv] You make 13 tricks in ♥, ♠, ♣ on any lead. You are faced with fab dummy, but still expecting the ♥ suit to break badly, but all goes a bit too well. If East and North hand were switched tho, then you would be congratulating yourself for perfect bid of 4♥. All but one West elected to open 4♦, and this was a winning action. Only one in MP tourney reached slam after 4♦ was passed round to South. Most settled for 4♥+3, but a few collected +800 for 5♦X-3 after East raised! One West opened 1♦ North found a ♠ overcall, and South drove to 6♠. As Adam said, "preempts - especially those at 4-level - sometimes work....." So another lesson from this hand is that opening 1♦ with West hand isn't a winning action? DISCUSS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 The west hand is a crapshoot and a 1♦ opener could easily win. If you trade the North and East hands, this could lead to buying the contract or defending something below a cold N/S game. The 4♦ bid on a different lie could easily be - whatever, doubled or not against nothing. I might bid either depending on whether I had an extra shot in my latte but it's either or. A 3 level pre-empt is nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VM1973 Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Ah well - no consensus it seems....... [hv=pc=n&s=st86hakq73dcakq62&w=sq9h95dakj75432ct&n=sakj32h642d96cj97&e=s754hjt8dqt8c8543&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=4dpp4hppp]399|300[/hv] You make 13 tricks in ♥, ♠, ♣ on any lead. You are faced with fab dummy, but still expecting the ♥ suit to break badly, but all goes a bit too well. If East and North hand were switched tho, then you would be congratulating yourself for perfect bid of 4♥. All but one West elected to open 4♦, and this was a winning action. Only one in MP tourney reached slam after 4♦ was passed round to South. Most settled for 4♥+3, but a few collected +800 for 5♦X-3 after East raised! One West opened 1♦ North found a ♠ overcall, and South drove to 6♠. As Adam said, "preempts - especially those at 4-level - sometimes work....." So another lesson from this hand is that opening 1♦ with West hand isn't a winning action? DISCUSS!I must admit that it never entered my mind to find 3♦ in the responder hand because you should raise with that holding. You could easily buy the contract for 5♦ undoubled or push 4th seat into making a high-level guess without much to go on. It is just barely possible to find slam, I think maybe with4♦ PASS PASS 4NT (two lower unbid)PASS 5♦ PASS 6♥... but really it's kind of a stretch. And making 13 tricks with the hands is kind of lucky. Not only do you need hearts to behave, but you also need to find the Q♠ in the pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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