What do you open

[Free]

Playing imps, I was dealt the following hand:

[hv=pc=n&e=sk9hj86dq84cak653&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=pp]133|200[/hv]

 

I'd like your opinions about what strategy to take with such a hand in 3rd seat NV. Playing precision, partner would open every 11-count, and some distributional 10-counts as well obviously. You have several options:

- 1♦ is the systemic bid. It shows maximum 11-15HCP with 2+♦ (11-13 balanced included). In 3rd seat this opening can be lighter.

- 1NT showing 14-16HCP balanced. We frequently upgrade 13-counts to 1NT (especially with a 5 card Major).

- 2♣. Normally this shows 11-15HCP with 6+♣, but in 3rd seat a good 5 card ♣ is also allowed, and we may be weaker.

- I don't see any alternatives, but if you have any please let me know. :)

 

What would you open, and why?

[Hanoi5]

I'd open 1NT for its pre-emptive effect. 2♣ is the alternative IF the partnership is clear that it can be done on a 5-card club suit in 3rd position. 1♦ sucks I think.

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&e=sk9hj86dq84cak653&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=pp]133|300| Free wrote:

Playing imps, I was dealt the following hand:

I'd like your opinions about what strategy to take with such a hand in 3rd seat NV. Playing precision, partner would open every 11-count, and some distributional 10-counts as well obviously. You have several options:

- 1♦ is the systemic bid. It shows maximum 11-15HCP with 2+♦ (11-13 balanced included). In 3rd seat this opening can be lighter.

- 1NT showing 14-16HCP balanced. We frequently upgrade 13-counts to 1NT (especially with a 5 card Major).

- 2♣. Normally this shows 11-15HCP with 6+♣, but in 3rd seat a good 5 card ♣ is also allowed, and we may be weaker.

 

IMO, 1N = 10 (Although, if you open 1N on any old 13 count with a 5 card suit, then you should declare the range as 13+ -16. -- Just my opinion -- The directors whom I've asked disagree with me). 2♣ = 8. 1♦ = 7 (but if the five card suit is diamonds, then 1♦ seems better than 1N.) [/hv]

[hrothgar]

Playing imps, I was dealt the following hand:

[hv=pc=n&e=sk9hj86dq84cak653&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=pp]133|200[/hv]

 

I'd like your opinions about what strategy to take with such a hand in 3rd seat NV. Playing precision, partner would open every 11-count, and some distributional 10-counts as well obviously. You have several options:

- 1♦ is the systemic bid. It shows maximum 11-15HCP with 2+♦ (11-13 balanced included). In 3rd seat this opening can be lighter.

- 1NT showing 14-16HCP balanced. We frequently upgrade 13-counts to 1NT (especially with a 5 card Major).

- 2♣. Normally this shows 11-15HCP with 6+♣, but in 3rd seat a good 5 card ♣ is also allowed, and we may be weaker.

- I don't see any alternatives, but if you have any please let me know. :)

 

What would you open, and why?

 

I think that 1NT is the best choice of bids

 

You have a balanced hand

This looks right in terms of strength (AKxxx is a nice holding)

You're protecting your tenaces on the opening lead

[Phil]

Easy 1N, especially in 3rd.

[jmcw]

When you have a systemically correct bid available why would you not use it?

 

Maybe you don't like the system bid, so you stretch for something better?

If you bid 1NT with this hand because its preemptive then why not do in 1st and 2nd seat?

 

With this thinking would you open 1♠ on [hv=pc=n&n=sakqth753d74ca43]133|100[/hv]

[Free]

When you have a systemically correct bid available why would you not use it?

 

Maybe you don't like the system bid, so you stretch for something better?

If you bid 1NT with this hand because its preemptive then why not do in 1st and 2nd seat?

 

With this thinking would you open 1♠ on [hv=pc=n&n=sakqth753d74ca43]133|100[/hv]

The reason why I don't like the systemic 1♦ is because I'll never be able to show my ♣ suit or fight the part score battle properly, because we expect a competitive auction. The alternatives are more attractive imo. 1NT is a little upgrade, it's more preemptive, but it risks ending too high. 2♣ gets the ♣ suit in the picture and is also preemptive with the risk of missing a better ♥ fit (or even a 5-2 ♠ fit).

 

Your example hand has only 12 cards, so I don't know what point you're trying to make with it. With 4♠s only we never open 1♠ per agreement, if that's what you were trying to say.

[JLOGIC]

I don't get 1N. Our hand is strong enough/has enough D that I don't usually expect them to have a game. My hand is also weak enough that I don't expect to ever have a game when partner couldn't open first seat white in precision (though he will probably be bidding 1N-3N with 10). I would just open 1D and don't get why that's a problem. If you don't like opening a nebulous diamond when you have clubs then stop playing precision.

[gnasher]

We frequently upgrade 13-counts to 1NT (especially with a 5 card Major).

 

Why especially with a 5-card major? I can't believe it's better to open 1NT on AKxxx Jxx Kx Qxx than on Qxx Jxx Kx AKxxx.

[dake50]

Agree Hanoi5.

Grab 1NT. Deviate 1 hcp to get over opponents easy M-fit tries.

Attempt to win this partial hand.

Partner knows 1D was available to let his 4xM into 1-level.

[gwnn]

1NT woooo

[jmcw]

I don't get 1N. Our hand is strong enough/has enough D that I don't usually expect them to have a game. My hand is also weak enough that I don't expect to ever have a game when partner couldn't open first seat white in precision (though he will probably be bidding 1N-3N with 10). I would just open 1D and don't get why that's a problem. If you don't like opening a nebulous diamond when you have clubs then stop playing precision.

 

Amen, much better said than my earlier post.

[MickyB]

1NT would [should] announce interest in game opposite a passed hand. We don't have that. It also wouldn't get our clubs into the picture.

 

2C will cause partner to frequently overcompete. If you were suggesting bending the requirement for a six-card suit on x xxx Axxx KQJTx, that would seem perfectly reasonable, but that hand is nothing like this one.

 

1D may not show our clubs, but now partner can act knowing that we have something, and we can hope to find our fit later.

 

There is a good case for switching to natural, strong NT methods just in third seat, IMO. You could even play four-card majors, now your 1C opening would almost show five cards!

[JLOGIC]

MickyB, I think you are missing out on the preemptive effect of white 3rd seat 1Ns. Like I would always love to be able to open 1N on xx Jx KQxx AQJxx or something in third seat w/r in order to F them out of a game, but this is the wrong hand for that imo, we have too much defense combined with not enough offense.

[the hog]

" 1♦ is the systemic bid. It shows maximum 11-15HCP with 2+♦ (11-13 balanced included). In 3rd seat this opening can be lighter."

 

So why deviate from the system bid? If you don't like the system bid, play another system.

[Lurpoa]

Playing imps, I was dealt the following hand:

[hv=pc=n&e=sk9hj86dq84cak653&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=pp]133|200[/hv]

 

I'd like your opinions about what strategy to take with such a hand in 3rd seat NV. Playing precision, partner would open every 11-count, and some distributional 10-counts as well obviously. You have several options:

- 1♦ is the systemic bid. It shows maximum 11-15HCP with 2+♦ (11-13 balanced included). In 3rd seat this opening can be lighter.

- 1NT showing 14-16HCP balanced. We frequently upgrade 13-counts to 1NT (especially with a 5 card Major).

- 2♣. Normally this shows 11-15HCP with 6+♣, but in 3rd seat a good 5 card ♣ is also allowed, and we may be weaker.

- I don't see any alternatives, but if you have any please let me know. :)

 

What would you open, and why?

 

 

 

A systemic bid is available. So I would use it: that is better the partnership in the long term.

 

That said 1NT is not completely wrong. 1♦=10, 1NT=7.

 

[Mbodell]

MBodell's law: "If you have a choice of reasonable opening bids and one of them is 1NT, then bid it."

 

I like 1nt, especially all white. I'd rather play 12-15 or 11-15 or even 10-14 then (13+)14-16 if partner is going to open all 11's but only shapely 10's as I'd rather we have a wide preemptive range and never have a 3nt game on power where you could have 16 opposite a flat 10.

[dake50]

If not 1NT, but 1D, what do you defenders of that say to

1) Letting 4xM overcalls in and they find 2M,3M?

2) Choosing an alternative in a 3 card suit.

Try to get your real 5-suit into the auction

AND balanced minimum message to partner.

3) Systemically justify the losing 1D(precision or nebulous)

when a very good alternative in 3rd seat presents.

[Free]

I choose to open 2♣ for the preemptive effect, the decent suit, and the expected competitiveness. In 1st and 2nd seat you don't expect competition like in 3rd seat with such hand. In any other seat I'd open 1♦ without blinking, but in 3rd we're more flexible and allow a 2♣ opening on a good 5 card ♣ (so I thought I had a choice :) ). And as always we also allow upgrades. I didn't like the downsides of 1NT, so the choice was between 1♦ and 2♣ imo. I didn't expect so much support for 1NT!

 

My action turned out bad. I was doubled, RHO passed with a 3=3=3=4 with 6HCP, and I even had to underruff for -2:

myhands

 

There are many opposing reactions, so it's hard to conclude anything except that my choice doesn't get much support. That made me wonder: on what type of hand is it ok to open 2♣ on a 5 card in 3rd seat (instead of 1♦ or 2♦ 3-suited)?

[olien]

I've only opened 2♣ on a 5-card suit a couple of times in 3rd seat. Both times it was a (31)45 type where I preferred a ♣ lead to a ♦ lead and I wanted to preempt them out of an M fit. Of course you might also do it on (41)35 types or (42)25 or even 2245 types where you just want to get in a lead director and do some preempting. I'm not really a fan of the idea of doing it with a 4-card M because too frequently you'll lose the M fit and play in a 5-2 or 5-1 ♣ fit. However, I would never open 2♣ on a 5332 type hand except maybe under the most favorable of conditions (white v red, super light, know opps have game). It totally distorts your offensive capabilities and can destroy your later constructive/competitive bidding if you can do it on this hand type and partner is expecting you to usually have 6+♣ or at least some distribution to compensate. Anyways, these are just my experiences.

[manudude03]

I would open 2C. I hope partner isn't the kind to compete with random hands with a doubleton club. I really want a club lead if they land in game, it is a suit partner can compete in "effectively" (especially if you don't play a roman/precision 2D) and if we do have game on, 2C will likely make it easier to judge than 1NT. I generally hate opening 1D when there are other options, I find it's completely exposed if you get competition.

[straube]

the knr is 12.75 and DK is 12+. Scattered honors are the culprit. I think 1N is a big overbid.

 

I don't like 2C though it has chances of winning. It might get the right lead and might preempt them into the wrong spot. I don't like it because you have a very balanced hand and only mild preference for clubs; you are probably hoping that the opponents buy the contract and that you don't have to play clubs. I think you're better off if your partner knows whether 2C is a constructive bid (game interest or wanting to play a club part score) or destructive bid (weak two).

 

Have you considered raising your NT range by a point in 3rd and 4th seat? That might make you feel like you are accomplishing more when you open 1D and rebid 1N with this hand...showing a full opening hand.

 

Anyway, my vote is for 1D.

[dake50]

If you don't like opening a nebulous diamond

when you have clubs then stop playing precision.

 

** Exactly, every precision player knows his systemic

** weakness (bid that loses MP/IMP) is the nebulous 1D.

** Let's choose that nebulous 1D when a stops balanced hand presents.

** Eagerly enter into the bid that loses!

[sassan]

2♣ is not an option for me. If partner has some points, you have misguided and pre-empted your side. If partner is weak with no clubs, you will settle for -500. If partner has long clubs with weak hand, you still have a chance to find the fit even if you open 1♦.

 

1NT has some merits, but with dubious values of ♠Kx ♥Jxx ♦Qxx, it is not going to work more often than it does. This hand looks like 13 HCP, but hardly has 10 working points. If opposing side has a game somewhere, it means our 1NTX will go down 3 for -500. If they don't have a game, why bother; let them bid it :)

 

1♦ seems to be the only choice for me, the system bid and does not pre-empt our side. If they have a game they will bid it and make it, whatever we chose to open. Not to pre-empt opponents with a balanced defensive hand is the correct tactical bid here.

[chasetb]

You're missing a Q♣ or J♣ to even considering opening that hand 2♣ imo. If you are opening this hand, systemically it has to be 1♦; playing Precision I expect my partner to be able to hit my Club suit more often than the average player over the nebulous 1♦. An interesting bid (and the one I chose in the poll but might not at the table) is PASS!