MrAce Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Responder promised 4♠. About the arguments whether we shd start with 1♠ or 2♦, they both have up and down sides. Responding 1♠ : Will have hard time to set trumps and make a forcing bid at the same time if pd rebids 2♥, but will definetely know pd has 6♥ on 2♥ bid. Responding 2♦: Will not have the issue of creating a forcing auction since already made a gf respond, however will not be sure if opener really has 6 cards ♥ or not. At least not for another round. Also, just an idea, not that i love it but... 1♥--1♠ 2♥--4♣ can be used as splinter in either minor(a relay asks), and 4♦ can be used to make a forcing ♥ raise. This will allow 3m bids for natural or 3 NT purposes. Of course assuming 3♠ would be forcing, which is not the case for most people, unless they play 1♥--2♠ as invitational 6 cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Ok - what do you bid, after opener bids 3H? And what add. information have you got, that makes now all the difference?What do I know? Maybe responder was always bidding the small slam opposite enough keycards, but would be happy to try for grand in case opener jumped to 4♥. Maybe he has weak trumps support and thinks now that opener rebid 3♥ the odds are reasonable that his hearts are good enough. Maybe he wanted to try for grand opposite enough keycards, but wanted to be more careful in case there is a 3rd round spade loser. Maybe responder has ♣Kx and was considering protecting his king with 6NT in stead of 6♥ if there are enough keycards and opener doesn't have a club stop. Maybe he wanted to show his diamond side suit so that opener can judge his cards well for grand. Meanwhile, responder could try for slam by bidding 4♣ over 3♥, which is a forcing heart raise. Anyway, if you are telling me that with 4=2=4=3, the only way to invite slam over 2♥ is bidding 5♥, then I would suggest that this methods are suboptimal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 I cannot disagree with the exact wording of your post but I would be quick to amend that a 2♦ bid followed by a 2♠ rebid surely does promise 5 diamonds in "bog-standard 2/1". Personally, I very much prefer that 2♦ promise 5+ diamonds regardless of the number of spades held.When there is a 1H open, I have Opener "tell" if he has 4 cards ♠ as well ... with a minimum or w/"extras" ( 15+hcp ).... after a 2/1 GF ( 2D! or 2C! ) .[ You may have seen me post my gadget before... ad nauseum ] . This makes moot the point of Responder showing his ♠ holding. I too, prefer the 2/1 suit to be 5+ cards, but it puts too much pressure on Responder.What if Responder has a GF hand, w/NO 4 cards ♠, NO 5 card minor, and NO 4 cards ♥ ?What do you respond after a 1H open ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 P_Marlowe said: " The 2NT rebid by opener is quite often played as mixed range, 12-14 or 18-19." name='Vampyr' timestamp='1307461977' post='552125']Thanks for the info. How does this get clarified? Sorry for straying so far off topic.1M - 2m! ( 2/1 GF )2NT = 12-14 or 18,19 ... With the 18,19 hand, Opener will bid above 3NT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 Hi, Just one suggestion, how to solve responders problem - The problem responder has, is to find out, #1 how many spades p has#2 Does opener have a min for his min opener or a max for his min opener, translating this to HCP, has opener 12-13 or 14-15 for his opening bid. One solution is to play 3C in the sequence 1H - 1S2H - 3C as some kind of NMF / 3rd suit forcing. The purpose of NMF / 3 suit forcing is to find answers to the question raised under #1 and #2. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Cherdano said it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCH Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Maybe you should have asked them their second bid, as well. And you definitely ought to use less formatting in your posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCH Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 I am hapy with the formating, very hapy makes it clear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 1♠ promises 4 spades, that's standard. The thing is that when responder bids 3♦ it is normal to expect him to have more spades than diamonds (or maybe the same number, usually 5-5). Is 5♣ 0-3 KC? Then what's the problem with 6NT? Is it 1-4? Then it's OK to play 5♥. I think with this powerful hand responder can KC over 2♥, maybe even cue-bid with 4♣ if s/he wants to be more scientific. I'm not a fan of the 3♦ bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_R__E_G Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 I just want to go on record as saying that I think if you're playing 2/1, starting with any other response than 1♠ is crazy chicken. Feel free to up vote/down vote accordingly. PS and obviously it only promises 4. As many have said, it's the 3♦ bid that increases the likelyhood of it being more than 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjbrr Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 As usual I'm late to the party and I didn't read a lot of the thread, but with 4243 shape and a game forcing hand it's very good to bid 2♦ (or 2♣ if you play that it can be either a balanced hand or a natural ♣ suit) instead of 1♠ at your first turn to bid in a 2/1 system. It seems, OP, that you instinctively realized that the auction 1♥-1♠; 2♥- 3 anything is not a really great auction. You're right. Also, this auction promises 5♠, but I suspect most people don't realize it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjbrr Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 I just want to go on record as saying that I think if you're playing 2/1, starting with any other response than 1♠ is crazy chicken. No. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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