responses to mini/weak nt

[luke warm]

i prefer 10-13 mini in first 3 seats, all vulnerabilities, and 12-14 in 4th, but lately i've been playing 12-14 all the time.. the responses are the same

 

2H/S = to play

2NT = puppet to 3C which is pass/correct preemptive bid

3C/D/H/S = invitational with 6+

 

2C=invitational puppet, opener rebids a 5M or 6m else 2D... 2D can be passed by responder (say a 0 hcp 3352 hand).. after 2D:

 

2H=<4 hearts, may have 4 spades.. used to invite 2NT... a 2NT bid over opener's 2S would show <4 spades, <4 hearts, invitational to 3NT but no shape

 

2S=4 hearts, <4 spades, invitational - opener can sign off at 2NT, bid 3NT, sign off at 3H, bid 4H

 

2NT=invitational 4/4 in majors - opener can pass, etc

 

3C=invitational 5/4 in majors (bid color of 5 carder)

 

3D=invitational 4/5 in majors (bid color)

 

3H/S=invitational with 5, but MUST have shape (else bid as above - "shape" would be 2524 or better)

 

3NT=unused (suggestions?)

 

i think that's it for 2C, i'll look to see if i left anything off

[luke warm]

1NT : 2D = game force.. opener rebids (these can be reversed to make responder declare more often, but i'm not convinced it is better - sorry free :rolleyes:):

 

2H=4

2S=4, denies hearts

2NT=any 4333

3C=5

3D=4/4 minors

3H/S/NT= 5 diamonds with 2353, 3253, and 3352 distribution in order

 

if opener shows hearts or spades and has 5 of them, he can show this on the next relay... for example:

1NT : 2D

2H : 2S

3H = this shows exactly 2533 distribution.. 3S would show 3523 and 3NT 3532... the same structure for spades

 

if responder bids next cheapest it is always an asking relay... exceptions are:

1) any 3NT bid is to play (by responder)

2) any jump to 4M, 5m, 6any is to play

 

after distribution is known, next relay is a minimum/maximum ask IF it can be made below 3S... for example:

1NT : 2D

2NT : 3C - 2NT showed any 4333, 3C asks

3D : 3H - 3D showed 3334 exactly, 3H min/max ask

4C - i put this to show how you can 'zoom' if you want.. 4C shows max hand with 4 controls.. for a 10-13 NT, 1 or 2 controls is considered minimum... for 12-14 we use 2 or 3 as minimum... so the 4C bid above shows max hcp AND one control above minimum... always show minimum with min hcp OR with min controls

 

if no room for, or if after, a min/max ask, there is a control ask... remember, responder can place the contract after opener's dist is known, so usually a control ask is slam looking... spiral scan always is.. example of control ask:

 

1NT : 2D

2H : 2S = 4 hearts : asking

2NT : 3C = 4/4 majors : asking

3H : 3S = 4432 : min/max ask

3NT : 4C = either min hcp OR min controls (2/3 if 12-14) : control ask

4S : = 5 controls if 12-14.. 4NT by responder would be spiral scan

[luke warm]

finally spiral scan (george rosenkrantz, tho others play a slightly different version)

 

spiral scan is used after controls are known... it's always a slam look, and has a few rules... a well-oiled p'ship can change any or all of these depending on available RAM

 

1) scan order is always from longest to shortest (3=4=2=4 order would be H/C/S/D)

2) if, as above, equal length always start with highest ranking

3) for first 2 suits, A and K are considered top honors

4) for last 2 suits, the Q is added

5) doubletons are only scanned once

 

this is a denial cuebidding system.. so the first step denies one of top 2 honors OR shows all 3.. for example:

1NT : 2D

2NT : 3C = any 4333

3D : 3H = 3334

3S : 4C = minimum controls, hcp, or both

4D : 4H = 2 or 3 controls (if 12-14 nt)

4S = either neither of the top 2 OR the top 3

4NT = a top club, denies a top spade

5C = top club, top spade, denies top heart

5D = top club, top spade, A,K, or Q of hearts

5H = top club, top spade, A,K, or Q of hearts and diamonds

5S = top club, top spade, one of top 3 in ♥ & ♦, and another top club

etc...

 

impossible to show all types of examples, so ask if specific questions

[whereagles]

I use Keri. Keri is far too flexible a method for me to worry about 'minor' details such as strong hand being dummy ocasionally :)

[luke warm]

these posts are in response to peter asking in another thread what i play over a weak nt, that's all... i'm sure keri is a very nice treatment

[whereagles]

Oh. ok.

[pbleighton]

Thanks.

 

Peter

[1eyedjack]

Do you want me to put my responses here, for comparison? or start a new thread (and where)? Or is interest waning?

 

[EDIT: Senior moment, but I think I may have posted my responses in these forums before, but I cannot find them through the search engine. Probably not using correct keywords. If anyone else finds the thread can they let me know? Or even advise if they can recall seeing them?]

[pbleighton]

"Do you want me to put my responses here, for comparison? or start a new thread (and where)? Or is interest waining?"

Sure.

[Free]

1NT : 2D = game force.. opener rebids (these can be reversed to make responder declare more often, but i'm not convinced it is better - sorry free :))

No problem m8, you're the one playing this, I'm not :)

[luke warm]

yeah but 'fess up... it does interest ya... hey, i'm not saying the small chance for responder declaring isn't worth it, there's just a little more memory work to expend that's all

[Flame]

btw does anyone know where i can found Keri in english ? ( i have it in france)

[keylime]

Jimmy,

 

Consider inverting your major answers after GF Stayman. Helps strong-side the hands.

 

i.e.:

 

1NT-2♦:

 

2♥: promises four spades, denies four hearts

2♠: promises four hearts, denies four spades

2NT: denies both majors, starts asking for missing stops

3♣/♦: five card minors

3♥: both majors, better spades than hearts

3♠: both majors, better hearts than spades

3NT: both majors, equal quality

[luke warm]

yeah, i have it that way (almost) on the website... i have nothing against it, i was just putting down the easiest way to remember it

[Gerben47]

Since 2♣ already asks for 4-card majors 2♦ should not, have a look at:

 

http://www.tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de/~di...dge/weaknt.html

 

Here 2♦ asks for a 2-card major, allowing you to play in 2M in a 5-2 fit when it doesn't fit (these hands are a weak spot of transfers)

[1eyedjack]

Since 2♣ already asks for 4-card majors 2♦ should not, have a look at:

 

http://www.tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de/~di...dge/weaknt.html

 

Here 2♦ asks for a 2-card major, allowing you to play in 2M in a 5-2 fit when it doesn't fit (these hands are a weak spot of transfers)

I read this far and didn't bother any further.

 

"After a weak 1NT opening (or rebid showing the same kind of hand), the opposite holds as after a normal 1NT. The goal is to get the notrump hand in dummy."

[luke warm]

2C doesn't ask for a 4 card major, it asks for a 5 card major or a 6 card minor.. with neither, opener bids 2D

[Chamaco]

I read this far and didn't bother any further.

 

"After a weak 1NT opening (or rebid showing the same kind of hand), the opposite holds as after a normal 1NT. The goal is to get the notrump hand in dummy."

I suppose (hope) it is a translation mistake :)

 

Maybe it is supposed to mean:

 

"The goal is to get the notrump hand TO PLAY THE dummy."

[Free]

Chamaco, I don't fully understand your sentence, but the general principle after a weak NT is to get that opener on the table, and let responder play the contracts since he'll be 'unknown'...

[Chamaco]

Chamaco, I don't fully understand your sentence, but the general principle after a weak NT is to get that opener on the table, and let responder play the contracts since he'll be 'unknown'...

I thought it is best to let the balanced hand receive the lead.

[Free]

It's better for the strong hand to receive the lead. So with strong NT, you want opener to play. With weak and mini NT you rather want responder to play, since nothing will be known about his hand.

[Gerben47]

Exactly this is the whole point of my response scheme. If you have game interest opposite a 12-14 or weaker you are as strong as the opener but you have the distributional surprises.

 

In my scheme 2♦ replaces both transfers and lets RESPONDER play if there is a fit, for example:

 

1NT - 2♦* - 2♠** - 4♥

* Asks for a doubleton major

** Doubleton in ♠

 

You know something about opener's hand but responder could have 5 spades or very few, who knows... You know he has at least 5 hearts because that's trump and opener showed 3, but that's it.

[pclayton]

btw does anyone know where i can found Keri in english ? ( i have it in france)

I saw it on Dan Neill's site a few months ago

 

http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.js...%2Fdanhome.html

 

Go into links, then Dan's systems page, then TOSR, then response system to 1N. Sorry - I'm having problems posting the direct link.

Edited September 30, 2004 by pclayton

[1eyedjack]

I read this far and didn't bother any further.

 

"After a weak 1NT opening (or rebid showing the same kind of hand), the opposite holds as after a normal 1NT. The goal is to get the notrump hand in dummy."

I suppose (hope) it is a translation mistake B)

 

Maybe it is supposed to mean:

 

"The goal is to get the notrump hand TO PLAY THE dummy."

No, I am sure that it was meant as written. And the point is not entirely devoid of merit. It just betrays a total lack of appreciation of the real priorities. There are more important goals than placing declarer.

[Free]

There are more important goals than placing declarer.

This is quite far from the truth... But if you don't care, so be it, I just want an unknown hand to declare, and I want a known hand to be dummy. Makes it lots harder for defenders!