Please settle a bet

[scrote]

Is playing one spade as non-forcing in this auction widely considered absurd, or is it played as NF by some sensible pairs?

 

(1♦) - 1♥ - (P) - 1♠

[ahri]

Is playing one spade as non-forcing in this auction widely considered absurd, or is it played as NF by some sensible pairs?

 

(1♦) - 1♥ - (P) - 1♠

 

I never thought it could be NF, if that answer helps :)

[OleBerg]

Is playing one spade as non-forcing in this auction widely considered absurd, or is it played as NF by some sensible pairs?

 

(1♦) - 1♥ - (P) - 1♠

 

The sequence was discussed in a thread a while ago. I thought it to be completely obvious to be forcing, but a lot of the respected posters thought otherwise, and it seemed that some of the very strong international pairs played it NF.

 

So it should be safe to assume, that it is not widely considered absurd.

[gwnn]

There are plenty of people who play it as NF. Many of the best posters here, too.

 

I can't be bothered to look for evidence supporting this, though, because the search function is worse on the new forums.

[Fluffy]

what OleBerg said. I recall it was meckwell who were exposed as the example who played it as NF. I haven't found a hand ever where I wanted it to be NF yet.

[gnasher]

Here are two arguably sensible pairs that play it as non-forcing:

 

http://www.ecatsbrid...oth-rodwell.pdf

 

http://www.ecatsbrid...man-mahmood.pdf

[dake50]

With other forces available: Jordan, Q-bid

Why shouldn't this be fit-seeking/lead-directing non-force?

[scrote]

Thanks very much. Gnasher's links certainly gave me a good laugh. It's safe to say the responses are what i was hoping for.

[CSGibson]

Personally I prefer to play it forcing by an unpassed hand, but that is something I specifically discuss with my partners before trotting it out because playing it as non-forcing is certainly a popular and playable method.

[Phil]

If you play it NF, it helps to have 2♠ available as a good hand with spades (and not fitted).

[JLOGIC]

NF is bridge world standard (though it is getting to be dated, I have no reason to believe it won't be BWS for this decade also, I have a biased and limited sample but almost all the good pairs that I know well play it as NF). I also strongly prefer NF.

 

That said, a lot of people also seem to play is as forcing, many people from many regions seem to think that is 100 % standard, so I think it might be a regional thing. So probably they are both fine, and maybe it depends on your general overcalling style which is better.

[kgr]

If I remember correctly then M.Lawrence said it was not forcing in one of his daily hands

[mfa1010]

The problem arises if the overcall could be worse than ridiculous to start with. Ours could. Then the bidding could go on forever if passing is 100% prohibited. Therefore we allow overcaller to pass 1♠ if he was just kidding with his 1♥ bid.

[Finch]

It depends on your overcall style. My husband plays it as forcing with me, and NF with another partner who has a much lighter 1-level overcalling style (and plays intermediate jump overcalls except at green).

 

It's obviously better to play it as forcing when you have a forcing 1S bid, because the cue is then always a raise, and you don't want to jump to 2S on a random 5-card suit and a good hand with Hx support for partner.

 

It probably matters less than you might think at first sight, because a huge percentage of hands will bid 1S whether or not it is forcing; those who play it NF still (I believe) think it's constructive. It's only the weak hands with long spades at one end, and the very good hands at the other, that are excluded from the possible 1S hands and both of these are pretty rare.

[Flameous]

When I don't play transfer advances to overcalls, I play that 1-lvl bids are forcing and 2-lvl bids are only semiforcing, with a real rock you start with cuebid. When playing that transfers start with cuebid, I could quite well play it as NF. I just haven't actually agreed upon that and standard is forcing.

[Free]

I've never heard this was played NF until a few weeks/months ago in the other thread. Apparently some world class players play it as NF, so it can't be that bad obviously. This makes me think there's no clear standard.

[P_Marlowe]

Playing 1S as NF is not uncommon.

 

Comment 1: If you play it as forcing, you can play, that 1S is only based on a 4 carder.

Comment 2: Nonforcing does not mean garbage, if you play 1S as NF, than 1S is still showing

constructive values.

Comment 3: Some play transfer responses after a overcall sidestepping the issue.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS: For whats it worth - we play NF, I would assume, that most peoble coming from an Acol background,

would treat 1S as NF, but the last time I was in Irland, was 15 years ago.

 

PSS: We overcall light.

[gwnn]

off topic, now that the question in the opening post has been basically decided:

 

it's PPS, not PSS

 

[han]

I overcall quite light, I play 1S as NF and use 2S as forcing with spades.