DarrenE Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 ♠J♥K87432♦J♣AQ853 You - Partner (no opps bidding)1♥ - 1♠2♣ - 4N (1)5♦(2) - 5♥? After the 2♣ bid the stop card was placed on the table for a considerable time. Then the next player commented (not exactly sure what was said so won't make it up). The player responded 'I am going to jump I just don't know what in to' and then bid 4N. (2) 1 or 4 Key Cards (for clubs) The TD is called at the end of the hand (result 5H=). How do you rule? If you want to take a poll the link is below. http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/46005-your-call/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 While North's comment was inappropriate, I don't see how it created a problem. South was asked to show key cards in clubs, and he responded. North now continued the ask. If South passes, he is breaching partnership protocol. I don't see how North's comment could influence South's action here one way or another. In the other thread, I stated that if 5♥ guarantees all of the key cards (which is the agreement that I have) then South has a clear 7♣ bid. In any event, he has to bid. If South passes 5♥, he is spinning the Wheel of Fortune. If it winds up in a good place for him, so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 I don't think I'll leave the result stand. The only reason for doing it might be that the players are novices or maybe they don't know about asking the queen after a 4NT answer. I think the comment (or something else at the table we don't know about, like Phil pointed out in the other thread) did definitely influence the outcome. So, if these players are novices I'll reprimand them for their actions and tell them to read law 16 and learn it by heart. If they're not and they knew about queen asks I'll change the contract to clubs (or 6♥) and whatever result it gets (if it worse than 5♥ of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMB1 Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 I don't think the UI (before 4NT) suggests one alternative over another. Even if Pass is not a logical alternative, I allow it and allow the result to stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamos Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 I don't think the UI (before 4NT) suggests one alternative over another. Even if Pass is not a logical alternative, I allow it and allow the result to stand. Partner's dither and remark all make it clear that he does not know if his 4NT agrees Clubs or not. It clearly does as our response shows - Now 5♥ asks for Club Queen - or at least it would if Clubs were agreed - but I know they are not cos UI tells me partner is a plonker and so I Pass UI suggests Pass 7♣ is LA (I'd bid it and though I haven't looked at poll I'm sure others would too) - Rule 7♣ minus whatever I assume it wasn't making. Of course in the real world I'd ask lots of questions but in this virtual world I can insult players and make maverick rulings with no comeback :) Letters of complaint should be addressed to DWS Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamford Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 I don't think the UI (before 4NT) suggests one alternative over another. Even if Pass is not a logical alternative, I allow it and allow the result to stand.It certainly doesn't demonstrably suggest anything; who knows what partner was thinking of doing? Adjusting is completely ridiculous here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Partner's tank already told us that he wasn't sure what to bid. The only thing the early pull of the Stop card, and the associated comment, indicated was that he wasn't choosing between jumping and not jumping. But his Blackwood bid also indicates that the only thing he could have been thinking about was whether to bid game or look for slam. So there's no significant UI from the comment. However, I would instruct North on proper procedure: don't touch the bid box until you've decided what to bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Partner's hesitation and comment express doubt about his correct course of action, The passer is in receipt of this UI. Clubs is the likely agreed suit, so, without partner's pantomime, it is fairly clear to go on. Pass still seems to be a deep position but, IMO, it was suggested by partner's dithering. IMO, If the director's poll confirms this assessment and opponents were damaged then the director should rule against the passer, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richlp Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Deleted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamford Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 Pass still seems to be a deep position but, IMO, it was suggested by partner's dithering.Why? Only if there is a CPU that a slow 4NT is RKCB for hearts, and nobody has suggested that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 What others are missing is that there was a second UI when partner bid 5♥ extremelly quick, not suggesting any grand ambitions preciselly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluejak Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Partner's dither and remark all make it clear that he does not know if his 4NT agrees Clubs or not.Why? He could be wondering whether to go beyond 3NT: he could be considering whether to bid 4♣ or 5♣: he could be considering all sorts of things, and in many of the cases he could be quite sure that 4NT agrees clubs. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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