Should this game be reached?

[Hanoi5]

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Even if east supports with a cue-bid, should west continue?

[BunnyGo]

This game looks like it's unlikely to make on a spade lead. I don't think my partnerships would find it.

[MrAce]

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Even if east supports with a cue-bid, should west continue?

 

If E supports with a cue, not continuing is out of question imo. But not over 2♠. I don't like 2♠ bid by the way.

[han]

I don't like the 2S either.

[menggq]

2♠ was underbid too much,i prefer cue bid 3♦ shows mixed raise S4+ cards that's better than bids 3♠ jump weak directly.

[Free]

West doesn't have anything left to say after 2♠. Btw, I hate 2♠, it's a serious underbid.

[billw55]

Agree to choose 2♦ for E first call. However this bid is the limit of the hand - there is nothing extra. So even if W chooses to invite (probable), E should still decline. Thus landing in 3♠ which is a reasonable spot. To make 10 tricks, W would have to crossruff, but must give up a heart and club before it gets rolling; giving the defense two chances to lead trumps with dummy in view, even if they don't find a trump on opening lead. I don't think this game is making against good defense.

[aguahombre]

2♠ was underbid too much,i prefer cue bid 3♦ shows mixed raise S4+ cards that's better than bids 3♠ jump weak directly.

Yep. And we still won't bid game. There is nothing particular about the overcall that will warrant continuing opposite a mixed raise.

[Phil]

This game looks like it's unlikely to make on a spade lead. I don't think my partnerships would find it.

 

I don't think 10 tricks are likely on a diamond lead either.

 

Agree with those who think 3♦ is a better call over the x.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

the East hand is way to strong for a single raise, take away all the honors,

just keep the shape, do you raise?

Most likely yes. And given the vulnerability, 2S in enough.

 

The hand is a mixed raise, if you dont play mixed raises, either make a 3S

preemptive raise, at least you are showing the 4th trump, some shape and

some HCP, which comes at least close, or make the inv.+ raise.

 

Vs. an inv.+ raise West should show some live, but most likely you will end

up in 3S, East is certainly dead min. for an inv.+ raise.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Hanoi5]

♣A was well placed and clubs broke 4-3. Spades were 3-1. I lost a club, a heart and a spade. If you win the diamond lead in hand (or the spade lead in hand) and start setting up clubs you'll get to 10 tricks eventually.

[pooltuna]

yes you should reach game. East has more than a good limit raise but I would treat it as a good limit raise. West has an opening hand with 3 quick tricks and a singleton. So with everyone having xtras somebody should move.

[cherdano]

This (bad) game should IMO be reached unless you can diagnose the wastage of the ♣K opposite the singleton. I would bid 1S 3D = mixed raise 4S.

[kenrexford]

I find myself shocked a lot, but perhaps that's because I'm odd. I'll concede that. But, I cannot imagine why the discussion so far has no mention of what I consider obvious. Why no 3♥ call by Advancer?

 

I mean, if the answer is that a one-under jump shows something special which I play at times), OK. But, if I was across the table from anyone I had not discussed this with, I would expect the mini-splinter to be recognized in this sequence.

 

At least I would expect someone to notice this.

 

For that matter, I'm surprised that so many consider 3♦ something other than a mini-splinter also, in this sequence.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I find myself shocked a lot, but perhaps that's because I'm odd. I'll concede that. But, I cannot imagine why the discussion so far has no mention of what I consider obvious. Why no 3♥ call by Advancer?

 

I mean, if the answer is that a one-under jump shows something special which I play at times), OK. But, if I was across the table from anyone I had not discussed this with, I would expect the mini-splinter to be recognized in this sequence.

 

At least I would expect someone to notice this.

 

For that matter, I'm surprised that so many consider 3♦ something other than a mini-splinter also, in this sequence.

I too thought about the 3♥-jump, but--in competition--that would be a fit-showing-jump .

 

In fact, if Advancer's hand had been a just a little better, he could have made a 3♣  fit-showing-jump!

 

I thought mini-splinters long ago lost favor and were replaced with fit-showing-jumps in the following instances:

1) as a passed hand or

2) in competition.

 

Splinters still exist--but only as double-jumps.

 

The jump-cue also used to be a mini-splinter ( eg. 3♦ here ) but lost out to the mixed raise w/4 card support.

[cherdano]

I find myself shocked a lot, but perhaps that's because I'm odd. I'll concede that. But, I cannot imagine why the discussion so far has no mention of what I consider obvious. Why no 3♥ call by Advancer?

 

I mean, if the answer is that a one-under jump shows something special which I play at times), OK. But, if I was across the table from anyone I had not discussed this with, I would expect the mini-splinter to be recognized in this sequence.

 

At least I would expect someone to notice this.

 

For that matter, I'm surprised that so many consider 3♦ something other than a mini-splinter also, in this sequence.

Ken, really? Still getting shocked that others don't play the same agreements as you do?

 

Here are some common meanings for the 3♥ bid:

1. natural and weak

2. fit-showing

3. natural and forcing (since 2♥ is non-forcing)

 

As for 3♦, I do think it's most common to play 2D = high-card based invitational raise, 3D= mixed raise, 3S = weak. The mixed raise is much more common than the diamond mini-splinter of course, and (IMO) an important hand to show.

[whereagles]

Good hand for a mixed raise by advancer, yes. Not that overcall would bid game after it, but nevertheless... :P

[benlessard]

the best i can come with is

 

1s--2d--2h!--2s

 

With one of my king surely wasted i think 2S is clear

i dont like to go to 3 level when i can avoid it and still invite.

[dake50]

We've already kept them out of 4H

- making if S:3-1 and CA>CK, both likely.

[gwnn]

Good hand for a mixed raise by advancer, yes. Not that overcall would bid game after it, but nevertheless... :P

West could bid 3♥ last train style and East could think he has a maximum. I am not claiming that I would do both of these but it would be cool if it happened and I consider both actions in the realm of possibility. Of course, sometimes I can get to very bad games with actions that are in the realm of possibility as well. That's just what happens when you overcall with a wide range.

[kenrexford]

I also generally like to play fit-showing jumps. For example, had there been no negative double, sure. But, it seems somewhat weird to use these when the opponents have staked out two probably suits of the remaining three.

[gnasher]

We've already kept them out of 4H

- making if S:3-1 and CA>CK, both likely.

 

Assuming hearts are 4-4, a club lead or switch will beat 4♥. If declarer draws trumps, he has at most four hearts, four clubs, and one spade ruff. If he doesn't, we get a club ruff.

[whereagles]

(...) Of course, sometimes I can get to very bad games with actions that are in the realm of possibility as well. That's just what happens when you overcall with a wide range.

 

Well, most bad games go down not because of wide range but because hcp are in the wrong places. Correct placement of hcp is one of the hardest things to gauge due to lack of bidding space. It's difficult already after 1M-2M, let alone after 1M-3x (support).