Hanoi5 Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 [hv=pc=n&w=s976hakt5d987cq65&e=sak8432h6d652cak7&d=w&v=e&b=16&a=p1d1sd2sp3dp3hp4sppp]266|200[/hv] Game tries can be a two-edged sword. In this case who did worse? East or West? Is it better to play short/long suit tries? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 I don't think either player did badly. Give west a doubleton diamonds and game is absolutely great. I think this qualifies for a whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
menggq Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 3♦ was game try that implied "do u hv any values in ♦ suit"? West has ♦3 small sd bid 3♠ to refuse East inviatational bidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Regardless of methods, I definetly want to be in this game. It's either spades 2-2 or opps not leading diamonds. That's 40%+ and a vulnerable game (at imps) is odds-on from about 33%+. Anyway, my methods are mixed trials: 1st step = short suit trialOther steps = trial with xxx(x) With this method overcaller either bids 3♦ as a long trial or 2♠+3♥ as a short one. I prefer long trials to be weak suits because I can't evaluate a values long trial properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Regardless of methods, I definetly want to be in this game. It's either spades 2-2 or opps not leading diamonds. That's 40%+ and a vulnerable game (at imps) is odds-on from about 33%+. Even with trumps 2-2, it's off if they lead diamonds - there's a trump promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 And what sort of googles would opponents be using? I want a pair of those :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 North will usually know that there are three diamonds to cash,. He'll usually know that if declarer has only five spades the promotion is risk-free. He'll know that if declarer has six spades, the promotion works against ♠AK ♣AK but not against ♠AKQ/AKJ ♣A. Both the decision to make a game try and the decision to make it in diamonds make the promotion a better bet. I know these things are easier on paper than in real life, but that doesn't seem an especailly difficult defence to find. Doesn't it say "Advanced and Expert-Class Bridge" at the top of this page? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 If diamonds split 5-2, some opponents may also be able to indicate to each other whether the opening leader has the ♣K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 I know these things are easier on paper than in real life, but that doesn't seem an especailly difficult defence to find. Oh I agree, but in real life it can happen that opening leader has JTx of clubs, QJx of hearts, Axx of diamonds, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Not to be in game is a system failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 First off, I don't want to be in game. Remember that 1♦ was opened. This greatly increases the chances that the guy on opening lead finds a diamond out (his partner's suit). As to the bidding, it's fine through 3♥. The 3♦ bid says "I could use some help in diamonds" and the 3♥ bid says "I don't have help in diamonds, but I do have some heart cards." From the east standpoint (looking at a singleton heart and three baby diamonds) heart cards are not particularly useful. So east should bid 3♠ and play there. In general two-way tries are the best (i.e. 3X short-suit, 2NT asks what long-suit try would be accepted) but there is not a huge difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 the 3♥ bid says "I don't have help in diamonds, but I do have some heart cards." Disagree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Suppose for example that East held ♠AKxxxx ♥QJx ♦Axx ♣x It seems like this hand might also overcall 1♠ and try 3♦ over 2♠. However, game on this hand is great opposite west's hand! So it seems very useful for west to be able to show cards in hearts... If Roger really thinks that slam should take precedence over game in an auction with both opponents bidding constructively (i.e. 3♥ is a cuebid with diamond help also, in case of a slam try) then I wish him good luck with that. Otherwise I'd be interested to hear what he thinks 3♥ is, and how he proposes to get to game opposite my hand above while avoiding game on the actual pair of hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 I play 3H shows a hand which has some values but is not willing to bid game by himself. As for explaining how I plan to bid every game which is good and stay out of every game which is not, I will not reveal that secret so lightly! You will have to purchase my upcoming book, How to Play Bridge Perfectly, coming to Master Point Press next month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dboxley Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 Disagree! If you're going to disagree you should at least say what you think it should mean. I've always thought it was a counter game try. OK, I just saw your answer, I should have looked before I responded. I still don't know how "having some values" is going to help if pd doesn't know where they are other than not in diamonds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted May 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 I play 3H shows a hand which has some values but is not willing to bid game by himself. As for explaining how I plan to bid every game which is good and stay out of every game which is not, I will not reveal that secret so lightly! You will have to purchase my upcoming book, How to Play Bridge Perfectly, coming to Master Point Press next month. If you're going to disagree you should at least say what you think it should mean. I've always thought it was a counter game try. OK, I just saw your answer, I should have looked before I responded. I still don't know how "having some values" is going to help if pd doesn't know where they are other than not in diamonds. Isn't there an inference that the person who makes a long suit try when there are three available suits will skip a suit where s/he needs no help? So in this case when partner asks about diamonds he needs help in the suit but does not need help in clubs. Could the overcaller hold: AKxxxx Qxx Qxx A? Then 3♥ leads to 4♠, but should advancer bid 3♥ with Qxx Kxx xxx KQTx? I'm not so sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dake50 Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 "And what sort of googles would opponents be using? I want a pair of those :) --whereagles ** To lead partner's bid suit requires GOGGLES? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted May 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 "And what sort of googles would opponents be using? I want a pair of those :) --whereagles ** To lead partner's bid suit requires GOGGLES? Maybe he's the guy who first said: 'The googles! They do nothing!!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 well, whatever. you know what I mean :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted May 30, 2011 Report Share Posted May 30, 2011 What is the issue? You have 23HCP, a 9 card trump fit - you reach game -1, so what? To answer your 2nd question - we play value showing trial bids, but responder isfairly strong for his single raise, so he will always accept the invite. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolvyrj Posted May 30, 2011 Report Share Posted May 30, 2011 If i read this correctly, 3♦ asks prd can u help me with the ♦ suit; with 3 small ones in my hand the answer must be NO. So what do i do, i bid a sign off 3 ♠.Why not showing my extra values, course prd was not intrested in those, s/he just wanted to know wheter or not im able to help in the ♦. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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