You already passed

[Hanoi5]

All white, imps, you dealt and hold:

 

♠JT98

♥7

♦T532

♣KT65

 

Pa-Pa-1♣-X

Pa-1♥-1NT-2♥

???

 

Incidentally, what range do you expect from partner? What shape?

[BunnyGo]

I expect my partner to have an 18-19 ish NT hand with hearts stopped and a 1 club opener (maybe 3=3=3=4? could be 3=4=2=4 or something else like that). I would expect double here to be negative, in which case I double. I don't want to sell to 2 hearts when we have 23 points and a fit somewhere.

[MrAce]

Pd has 18-19

 

I would not pass at my first bid but since i did, DBL now.

[gnasher]

I would have raised to 2♣.

 

I expect partner to have a good balanced or semi-balanced hand with some playing strength, not just any balanced 18-19. I don't think he should be 3433 or 4333 - what would be the point in bidding with that?

 

I bid 3♣.

[cherdano]

I agree with all that Andy said, except I would have bid 1♠ not 2♣ originally.

[rhm]

I would have raised to 2♣.

 

I expect partner to have a good balanced or semi-balanced hand with some playing strength, not just any balanced 18-19. I don't think he should be 3433 or 4333 - what would be the point in bidding with that?

 

I bid 3♣.

Well 18-19 balanced is not something you do not want to communicate to partner even if 3-4-3-3 or 4-3-3-3. With that much strength and being white it is is extremely unlikely that 1NT will be disaster.

Meanwhile I can not see how you can effectively compete with this hand if partner passes with "any 18-19 balanced". It is important to know whether your side has the balance of high card strength or not. At all white you fight for the part-score and the one, who can bid 1NT first, has an advantage at these colors when the strength is evenly divided, whether 1NT can be made or goes down one.

The only real issue is whether partner would bid 1NT with 4 cards in ♠. I dare say yes.

I would double now, clearly for takeout, and expect partner to bid a black suit unless he is 3♠=4♥=3♦=3♣. With this distribution partner should look at his hand, particular at his ♥ holding. With something like ♥AJxx scramble to 2♠, with say ♥KQJx go for the throat.

 

Rainer Herrmann

[whereagles]

Dbl if negative, otherwise 2NT for take out is fine. I don't expect pard to have 4 spades anyway.

[han]

Could gnasher and cherdano please explain why showing a 18-19 balanced hand is pointless? Should we sell out to 1H for fear of getting nailed in 1NT when we have nearly half the deck? Here we see an example of a hand where we are rather glad that partner showed his strength.

 

Maybe we should have acted earlier, but the auction has turned out rather well for us. I'd double.

[JLOGIC]

Agree with hanp, I do not understand why bidding with 18-19 balanced is pointless. Maybe it is because I pass more than most people when they make a takeout X (for instance I would pass routinely with a 6 count and 4 bad spades like Jxxx, Ax, xxxx, Jxx, and I would also pass with something like KJx Qxx Jxxx xxx). This is the style the Bob Hamman advocated to me and I've never seen a problem with it, however if my partner would not bid 1N with 18-19 bal I would just get stolen from routinely.

 

This auction is not at all analagous to me with something like 1C p p 1H where we would usually pass wtih 18-19 bal unless we had tricks.

[gnasher]

I said that bidding with 3433 or 4333 18-19 would be pointless.

 

How do you get stolen from by passing 1♥ with such a hand? Pass loses immediately only if:

- The opponents are about to stop in 1♥.

- Partner is going to let them play 1♥.

- They make exactly seven tricks in hearts (or they make more but weren't going to compete).

- We make at least seven tricks in notrumps.

It seems to me that a conjunction of these unfortunate circumstances will happen rather less often than "routinely". In fact, I suspect that "never" would be a better approximation.

 

The only other way I can think of for pass to lose is if partner has some weak hand that won't compete after ...1♥-pass-2♥, but will compete after ...1♥-1NT-2♥. Such hands do exist, but they are mostly hands with four clubs - hands with five diamonds or five spades would probably have bid immediately. If responder has this sort of hand, it is more likely to be right for him to bid when opener also has four or more clubs and offensive values, than when opener has any 18-19 balanced. Therefore a style where we bid 1NT only on suitable hands may help, rather than hinder, our ability to compete effectively.

 

Should we sell out to 1H for fear of getting nailed in 1NT when we have nearly half the deck?

If it turned out that we had only "nearly half the deck", I would defnitely be afraid to play in 1NT. Do you have good memories of playing 18 opposite 0 when the enemy have length in your only four-card suit?

 

I would pass routinely with a 6 count and 4 bad spades like Jxxx, Ax, xxxx, Jxx, and I would also pass with something like KJx Qxx Jxxx xxx

Personally I wouldn't have a 4243 six-count as responder, but I understand a style where he could have that. Presumably, however, he will act when 1♥ comes around to him, or even if the doubler raises to 2♥. Or are you saying that opener has to prebalance with a 3433 18-count because responder can't be relied upon to bid his own hand?

 

I wouldn't have your second example either, but again you're not going to pass out 1♥, are you?

 

[edited to correct various typos]

Edited May 24, 2011 by gnasher

[han]

With we I meant the people holding the 18-19 count. Not the combined partnership assets.

[gszes]

All white, imps, you dealt and hold:

 

♠JT98

♥7

♦T532

♣KT65

 

Pa-Pa-1♣-X

Pa-1♥-1NT-2♥

???

 

Incidentally, what range do you expect from partner? What shape?

 

18-19 bal no 4 card spade suit

 

does p have 4 spades (they better not) I would much prefer to hear about their 4 card spade suit

vs 1n. They are competing opposite what could be a broke p and a very strong hand behind them

so competing as safely as possible makes a ton of sense and 1s is inherently safer than 1n. The

fact that they might have 18-19 is irrelevant since game probability is low given the position

of the remaining hcp but we might be able to compete effectively for a part score.

 

having eliminated 4 spades from p hand the worst case scenario is if p is 3433. all other

distributions will contain at least 4c so our competing should be with a 3c bid not an

x which might convince p to bid 2s with 3 card support (even if they were 3334)

or even worse to pass for penalty since they would have to take 5 tricks (6 if our club k is useless)

in their hand alone with declarer being able to play practically double dummy.