Bid these hands

[dboxley]

I don't remember who started the argument about 'promises' and 'implies' but I'm sure I could find someone from New Jersey who would take care of the problem for a reasonable fee. The reason why it is important is because it affects opener's rebid. My partner rebid 3C because of the lack of a diamond stop and we got to 6C. I could see pitching my spade loser on a heart if we had solid clubs. If we had an agreement that 2S promised support then 2NT is ok.

[han]

I started the argument about promises and implies. Clearly you and I have a different idea of what the word means, so I would certainly avoid it in my system write-up.

 

I think east should rebid 2NT whether it promises, suggests or denies 3 spades. It is important to show your shape, and it can hardly be wrong to bid notrump first when you hold Qx.

[tolvyrj]

Promises, implies, neither...why guess, if 2/1 is absolute game force, we dont have to hang our selves this round; we can do it later if we please to do so, bid 3 ♦ and let prd tell the whole story B-)

[dboxley]

I started the argument about promises and implies. Clearly you and I have a different idea of what the word means, so I would certainly avoid it in my system write-up.

 

I think east should rebid 2NT whether it promises, suggests or denies 3 spades. It is important to show your shape, and it can hardly be wrong to bid notrump first when you hold Qx.

 

But if partner is bidding 2S with a doubleton then he doesn't have a diamond stopper. That is the whole point of this discussion which you don't seem to grasp.

[han]

At the risk of looking even more ignorant, let me once more try to say what I was saying. For greater clarity I'll try not to try to be funny.

 

Implies is a fuzzy term. As far as I know, people also use it to mean "by inference". For instance, if I always make a negative double with 3 cards in your major and I pass, then it implies that I have fewer than 3 cards in your major. It seems that in the way you use it here, 2S shows either 3-card support or only 2-card in a fairly balanced hand that doesn't have a diamond stopper. But, wouldn't it be much clearer to describe it as just that?

 

Your auction up to 3C is also fuzzy. If 2S can perhaps be a doubleton, and 3C can be a doubleton as well, then how will anyone ever know what's going on? With the given hand, I'd rather bid 2NT. If you want to play that 2S doesn't promise a spade fit, then I suggest that 2NT doesn't promise a stopper, but does show something in diamonds, for example Qx. Then, partner can bid 3NT holding Jxx in diamonds, or make a descriptive bid with a small doubleton.

 

And if partner has made an inspired 2S bid holding KJ xxx Axx KQxxx? Better!

[MrAce]

Can i ask a stupid question ?

 

If responder has no 3 card support and no stopper in ♦, why is he not using 4th suit ? Is 4th suit forbidden fruit after 2/1 gf auctions ? Does it show 6-5 or something ?

 

1♠--2♣

2♥----3♦ ?

[Zelandakh]

My auction (not 2/1)...

 

1S = 10-17, 5+ spades

... - 1N = INV+ relay

2D = 4+ hearts

... - 2H = GF relay

2N = 5-4 majors

... - 3C = relay

3H = 5422

... - 3S = relay

4D = max, 4 controls

... - 4N = Q ask

5C = no CQ

... - 5S = SQ?

P = nope

 

I do not think I would stop in 4S or find the 6NT contract. I think Ben's auction and methods looks the best for this hand.