1C (1S) P (2H) dbl

[straube]

LHO overcalls our strong club. Partner passes to show 5-7 hcps and next hand bids 2H.

 

What should double show? Ordinarily, we play double as takeout, but now they've bid two suits. There is also a chance that RHO is trying to steal hearts.

 

I'm guessing double should be penalty and 2S should be a takeout of spades.

 

What's best?

[menggq]

1C 1S P 2H

X=?

 

1.P show 0-5 hcp not 5-7hcp for my pre sys.

2.X show extra and balance hand without both ♠/♥ stopers.

3.if hv ♠/♥ stoper may bid 2N,if hv ♦ or ♣ suit just bid it.

4.if no extra no minors suits pass 2♥.

[Flameous]

I think X should be T/O of spades cause it's probably more frequent than penalty double and partner can always convert to penalty if RHO was fooling around.

Spades then can be a real suit if you want to cater for LHO psyching or bidding some bad 4 carder. Or you can use it to show two-suiter. (I'd say any without both majors)

 

Are you in a force here? Just thinking how strong pass can be. I guess it tends to show min bal or 31(54) sort of hands.

[straube]

I think X should be T/O of spades cause it's probably more frequent than penalty double and partner can always convert to penalty if RHO was fooling around.

Spades then can be a real suit if you want to cater for LHO psyching or bidding some bad 4 carder. Or you can use it to show two-suiter. (I'd say any without both majors)

 

Are you in a force here? Just thinking how strong pass can be. I guess it tends to show min bal or 31(54) sort of hands.

 

Yes, we're in a force. They can't play 2N or less undoubled.

[2200]

The more I thought about it, the more I felt it's logical to play 2S as natural and dbl as penalty showing real suit, and 3H should be a real power suit instead of a cuebid. It's too frequently nowadays to psych against big club, especially when the color is favorite.

 

With minimum big club strength, you simply pass since you are in force.

[Zelandakh]

It seems to me that almost any multi 2D defence should work here with appropriate adaptations. For example, using Dixon as a base you might start with

 

P = (semi-)balanced or significant extras

X = take-out of spades

2S + take-out of hearts

2N = minors

3any = natural

 

then adjust it from playing experience. If you play a different defence to multi-2D then it can be simialrly adapted. Even if not optimal this method has the advantage of not needing to learn something completely new.

[dake50]

Two things.

1st.

If they really have majors,

as natural bids would suggest,

where are we going?

2nd.

If they are "funning" us,

can we find our spot?

Each suggested scheme fails one or both questions.

[straube]

We play (3C) P (3H) dbl is penalty, potentially exposing a psyche.

 

I think the same logic applies here. 1S may be a psyche but 2H is almost a free shot as a psyche.

 

We also play that once we've doubled a suit contract for penalty, subsequent doubles are for penalty.

 

We also play Rubensohl and not sure how it applies here.

 

Still thinking that dbl should expose a psyche and 2S should be takeout. Not sure how to show spades. Usually, with Rubensohl, we transfer into their suit as Stayman. Maybe...

 

P-forcing, directionless

dbl-penalty

2S-takeout

2N-clubs

3C-diamonds

3D-

3H-

3S-

3N-

 

ordinarily, transfering into their suit is stayman with the other major. Not sure how to organize 3D up.