Hanoi5 Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Red vs White, your cards: ♠832♥A♦AQ94♣JT764 Pa-Pa-Pa-??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 I make it 11 with a stiff ace and a rebid problem. Some of the time that we're making a partscore, partner will carry us too high - I don't much want to hear 1♣-1♥;1NT-2NT. Against that, RHO didn't open in third seat at favourable, so we probably have a slight advantage in high cards. I'd pass, but I wouldn't criticise an opening bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Red vs White, your cards: ♠832♥A♦AQ94♣JT764 Pa-Pa-Pa-???My experience has not been good with passing hands out, which I would open in any other position. Rule of 15 does not apply to opening bids and I do not care very much for rebid problems. Over a 1♥ response I would rebid 1♠.Over 1♠ I pass, but show support if there is competition.I do not expect my partners to jump to 2NT just because they have a maximum. Rainer Herrmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSGibson Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Red vs White, your cards: ♠832♥A♦AQ94♣JT764 Pa-Pa-Pa-??? Pass. If they compete in either major, I'm not happy with myself for opening this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Rule of 15 does not apply to opening bids and I do not care very much for rebid problems. Rainer HerrmannIf the title "fifteen" refers to Pearson point count, this one is one short; and it only applies to the choice of whether to open in fourth chair. Opening the given hand 1C is unprepared. With the relative minor suit strengths I would open 1D, prepared to rebid 2C; but avoiding that by not opening at all with this 11-count seems best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Pass. While I do open many rule-of-14 hands in 4th seat I don't normally do so with short hearts (if nobody has a spade fit they will outbid us in hearts). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 I'd open this hand against aproximatelly 80%* of forum regulars at MPs, with 1♦ if my system allows me to. At IMPs I'd open only against 30%* or so. *: Opening against the ones I qualify as weakest, passing against strongest. Against my usual pponents in Spain I'd open always :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiddity Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Over a 1♥ response I would rebid 1♠. I hope that someday I'll have this much faith in my declarer play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akhare Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Let's round it out with another Pass... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Red vs White, your cards: ♠832♥A♦AQ94♣JT764 Pa-Pa-Pa-??? pass it out! You only have a Pearson count of 14 and a singleton ♥ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 My experience has not been good with passing hands out, which I would open in any other position. Rule of 15 does not apply to opening bids and I do not care very much for rebid problems. Over a 1♥ response I would rebid 1♠.Over 1♠ I pass, but show support if there is competition.I do not expect my partners to jump to 2NT just because they have a maximum. Rainer Herrmann Run that by me again! why doesn't the Pearson count apply? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Run that by me again! why doesn't the Pearson count apply?Because it's unreliable. It's been discredited for a while. Not saying that I'd open it necessarily, but if I pass it out, it is not because of Pearson count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Because it's unreliable. It's been discredited for a while. Not saying that I'd open it necessarily, but if I pass it out, it is not because of Pearson count. It is a guide!!!(In my experience it works fairly well) you not only have to look at your ♠ but how short are your ♥ without either major you are close to playing 3m if you open :( and is not clearly your side's hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 It is a guide but quite inaccurate. Inquiry made some serious statistical work a while ago and got to this conclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 It is a guide but quite inaccurate. Inquiry made some serious statistical work a while ago and got to this conclusion. I would have to see the data and I am uninclined to search BBO. Plus I can only speak from my perspective. Pearson count is only the initial guide before I make a decision. A bad Pearson count and very short ♥ is a bad start if you are deciding to open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Run that by me again! why doesn't the Pearson count apply?I believe Rainer is saying that if he would open a hand in first seat, he opens it in fourth seat, regardless of Pearson Points. Suppose: -, AQxxx, Kxxx, Kxxx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 I think it's this one: http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/13703-pearson-points-and-distribution/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 I think I'd pass. It's an 11-count and the opponents almost surely have a fit in a higher ranking suit than ours. Saying that you open anything you'd open in earlier positions doesn't seem right to me. The situation is very different, so why should we bid the same? For example, if you open light in first and second, then that's exactly a reason not to open light in fourth. Opening an "opening bid" in fourth seat regardless of the number of spades is of course quite sound, but you shouldn't read opening bid as "what I would open in first or second seat" if you open light. This is quite a light opening. As fluffy points out, I would also open against weak opponents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 I believe Rainer is saying that if he would open a hand in first seat, he opens it in fourth seat, regardless of Pearson Points. Suppose: -, AQxxx, Kxxx, Kxxx. AGAIN Pearson points are JUST A GUIDE. What would you do with Qx QJx KJxx KJxx? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 I think that the premise of Pearson Points is flawed. As I understand it, the idea is that when we are short in spades the opponents are quite likely to have a fit there. However, a player with five spades in third seat will usually open either 1♠ or 2♠. Therefore even when I'm very short in spades that's not a strong indication that the opponents have a spade fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Rule of 15 does not apply to opening bids... Run that by me again! why doesn't the Pearson count apply?I believe Rainer is saying that if he would open a hand in first seat, he opens it in fourth seat, regardless of Pearson Points. Suppose: -, AQxxx, Kxxx, Kxxx.AGAIN Pearson points are JUST A GUIDE. What would you do with Qx QJx KJxx KJxx?No need to get your britches in a wad. I was just trying to clarify Rainer's post, without either agreeing or disagreeing with it, since you seemed to be asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 I would pass this one and dont think its close. It wont be too tough to make a sim on this 1 and i might make 1 later this week. Opening against the ones I qualify as weakest, passing against strongest. maybe im wrong but i would tend to do the opposite, the stronger the opps the crappier the openings /5 cards preempts giving partner more strenght. As for rebidding 1S after 1H response i think its asking for troubles (3S/2Nt). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OleBerg Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 Omg, I pass a hand someone is bidding on. Calling the shrink first thing in the morning. It's not that don't open crappy hands in 4.th seat, but this one simply has to many flaws: Low point count, a badly placed ace, not much defence against any major-suit contract and a rebid-problem. The only bid with any appeal at all, would be a weak NT, hoping to play it there, and make. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolvyrj Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 I would pass, not because or despite of the Pearson count, but because i have no idea what to do over oppos 2 of a major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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