Which is most "standard"?

[awm]

You hold 4♠ and 4+♥. Playing 2/1, fairly standard agreements, 3♦ checkback over opener's 2NT rebid.

 

1♣ - 1♥

2NT - ???

 

What do you bid with 4/4 in the majors? What do you bid with 4/5+? How standard is this?

[Hanoi5]

Over 1NT, 2♠ shows 4-4. Why not keep it over 2NT? I play 3♣ is checkback though.

[menggq]

1C -1H

2NT- 3C = relay to 3D

3D = nat

3H =H6

3S = H4S4

3NT= TO PLAY with H4 balance hand

4C/D/S =SPL for good H suit

4H=TO PLAY

 

1C -1H

2NT-3C;

3D- pass = sign off show H4D6 weak hand

3H =H5 unbalance hand

3S =H5S4

3NT =H5 balance hand

4C =C FIT slam try balance hand

4D/S =SPL C FIT slam try

.......

 

Here is not full convention for 1X/1Y 2N/? , if u wd like to use it sd discuss with yr pd before playing.

[gwnn]

Over 1NT, 2♠ shows 4-4.

This is new to me.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

This is new to me.

Hanoi is playing a form of Wolff where 3C! is always checkback:

1m - 1H

2NT - 2S = 4-4

 

whereas:

1m - 1H

2NT - 3C! = may have 4s/5h as one of the options.

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

Edit: Additional Wolff sequences:

For the 1S response:

1m - 1S

2NT - ??

3H = 5/5

3C! = may have the 5s/4h as one of the options

 

So the 5/4 or 4/5 ALWAYS goes through 3C!.

 

In one form of Wolff, 3C! always asks for 4 cards ♥ ( for either of the 1-major initial responses ).

With NO 4 cards ♥, Opener replies 3D! but does not deny 3 card ♠ support.

 

Using Wolff also allows the intial 3D Response to be natural ( GF )... always :

1C/1D - 1H/1S

2NT - 3D = natural, GF

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

A definite drawback to Wolff is that a Major suit rebid (3M ) by Responder only shows 5+cards ( GF ) whereas in "NMF"-checkback, 3M = 6+ cards.

 

1m - 1M

2NT - 3M = 5+M in Wolff but 6+M in NMF-checkback

[Phil]

I think standard is 4-4 (similarly, 1x - 1♠ - 2N - 3♥ is 5-5). You use checkback with 4-5.

[CSGibson]

funny, I use checkback with both 4-4 and 4-5, reserving 3♠ for freak hands 5-6 or better. This increases opener's chance of playing the contract, but exposes some of his shape in the process.

[Lurpoa]

You hold 4♠ and 4+♥. Playing 2/1, fairly standard agreements, 3♦ checkback over opener's 2NT rebid.

 

1♣ - 1♥

2NT - ???

 

What do you bid with 4/4 in the majors? What do you bid with 4/5+? How standard is this?

 

 

It is really something you should agree with your partner.

If you agreed with partner to play that 3♦ as checkback, you better also agree with her, on the meaning of other bids.

[gnasher]

You should use the asking bid to ask, and the showing bid to show.

 

3♠ shows a 4-5 where you're interested in a 5-2 fit, or you want to investigate how well the hands fit for slam purposes. You use 3♦ on 4-4, and on the 4-5s where you only want to know about major-suit lengths.

[Finch]

I was thought that in connection with playing 3D as checkback, that

- 3C forces 3D, either a sign-off or a club slam try

- 3D checkback

- 3 own major = natural FG with 6+ cards

- 3 other major = slam try in other minor

[TWO4BRIDGE]

You hold 4♠ and 4+♥. Playing 2/1, fairly standard agreements, 3♦ checkback over opener's 2NT rebid.

 

1♣ - 1♥

2NT - ???

 

What do you bid with 4/4 in the majors? What do you bid with 4/5+? How standard is this?

I too always wondered how the "NMF" crowd shows a 4-4.

I've always assummed Responder doesn't show his ♠ when Opener has denied 3 cards ♥ ( and denied 4 cards ♠ as well ):

1C - 1H

2NT - 3D!

3NT* - pass

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

* If Opener had by-passed a 4 card ♠ suit in favor of the 2NT rebid, s/he would have bid

3S instead of 3NT.

[Gerben42]

I am surprised there are so few people who voted what I voted. It seems natural that bidding a suit shows more shape than relaying. Also, I thought most skip 1♠ to rebid 2NT. Therefore I voted 3♦ with 4-4, 3♠ with 4-5 majors.

[fromageGB]

Over 1NT, 2♠ shows 4-4. Why not keep it over 2NT? I play 3♣ is checkback though.

Me too. Didn't know it was called Wolff !

[fromageGB]

I am surprised there are so few people who voted what I voted. It seems natural that bidding a suit shows more shape than relaying.

It seems more natural to me the other way round. Making a relay implies I am interested in opener's holdings, namely 3 card heart support in this instance.

[fromageGB]

A definite drawback to Wolff is that a Major suit rebid (3M ) by Responder only shows 5+cards ( GF ) whereas in "NMF"-checkback, 3M = 6+ cards.

Is this necessarily true? Why cannot 3♥ show a 6 card suit, and a 5 card suit goes via a relay (NMF-checkback) to discover if opener has 3 card heart support? Nothing is lost if responder has 5 hearts and <4 spades, as if opener replies 3♠ you just bid 3NT.

 

If opener bids 3♥ responder with 4 spades as well as his 5 hearts can bid 3♠(GF) and then sign off in 4♥ if opener does not have 4 spades and rebids 3NT.

 

Then 1♣ 1♥ 2NT 3♥ is a six card suit.

[BobElliott]

You hold 4♠ and 4+♥. Playing 2/1, fairly standard agreements, 3♦ checkback over opener's 2NT rebid.

 

1♣ - 1♥

2NT - ???

 

What do you bid with 4/4 in the majors? What do you bid with 4/5+? How standard is this?

1C - 1H -

2NT - 3C = D

3D = 5+H(Then 3S = 4S & 5+H)

3H = 4H & 4S

3S = C

[TWO4BRIDGE]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-May-13, 21:01, said:

 

"A definite drawback to Wolff is that a Major suit rebid (3M ) by Responder only shows 5+cards ( GF ) whereas in "NMF"-checkback, 3M = 6+ cards."

 

Is this necessarily true? Why cannot 3♥ show a 6 card suit, and a 5 card suit goes via a relay (NMF-checkback) to discover if opener has 3 card heart support? Nothing is lost if responder has 5 hearts and <4 spades, as if opener replies 3♠ you just bid 3NT.

 

If opener bids 3♥ responder with 4 spades as well as his 5 hearts can bid 3♠(GF) and then sign off in 4♥ if opener does not have 4 spades and rebids 3NT.

 

Then 1♣ 1♥ 2NT 3♥ is a six card suit.

 

Wolff ( or Wolff Relay ) incorporates a "sign-off" for Responder ( which I failed to mention earlier ).

"Rebidding 3M by Responder AFTER going thru 3C! is a sign-off" .

The sign-off feature restricts the meaning of a 3M rebid after going thru 3C! .

 

Wolff Relay:

1m - 1H

2NT - 3C! ( asks for 4 cards ♥, always )

3D! ( no 4h) - 3H! = sign-off ( something like K Q x x x down and out )

 

likewise:

1m - 1S

2NT - 3C!

3D or 3H - 3S! = sign-off

 

That is why:

1m - 1S

2NT - 3S = only 5+cards M, but is GF ...and not 6+, GF

( and the direct-3S essentially denies 4 cards ♥ since didn't go thru 3C! )

 

-- Responder can't rebid 3S ( after going thru 3C! ) to show extra length with a GF, because it is a sign-off --.

[Lurpoa]

Hanoi is playing a form of Wolff where 3C! is always checkback:

1m - 1H

2NT - 2S = 4-4

 

whereas:

1m - 1H

2NT - 3C! = may have 4s/5h as one of the options.

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

Edit: Additional Wolff sequences:

For the 1S response:

1m - 1S

2NT - ??

3H = 5/5

3C! = may have the 5s/4h as one of the options

 

So the 5/4 or 4/5 ALWAYS goes through 3C!.

 

In one form of Wolff, 3C! always asks for 4 cards ♥ ( for either of the 1-major initial responses ).

With NO 4 cards ♥, Opener replies 3D! but does not deny 3 card ♠ support.

 

Using Wolff also allows the intial 3D Response to be natural ( GF )... always :

1C/1D - 1H/1S

2NT - 3D = natural, GF

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

A definite drawback to Wolff is that a Major suit rebid (3M ) by Responder only shows 5+cards ( GF ) whereas in "NMF"-checkback, 3M = 6+ cards.

 

1m - 1M

2NT - 3M = 5+M in Wolff but 6+M in NMF-checkback

 

 

 

Indeed.

 

Wolf (or the improved Parrot) can be very usefull.

 

But as always, they need a lot of agreement with partner on all the possible sequences.....and it's field of application.

 

 

I like to play those conventions very much, but only with a very, very regular partner, with whom I have discussed a lot.

[fromageGB]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-May-13, 21:01, said:

...

-- Responder can't rebid 3S ( after going thru 3C! ) to show extra length with a GF, because it is a sign-off --.

Thanks for the explanation, Don. So I don't play Wolff after all, and I can't sign off in a major partial.

[Fluffy]

I really though that the standard was to checkback with 3♣

[Quantumcat]

Most people I know play transfers over a 2NT rebid.

 

e.g.

 

With 4-4 in majors:

 

1♣ 1♥

2NT 3♥

3♠ 3NT

 

With 5-4 in majors:

 

1♣ 1♥

2NT 3♦

3♥ 3♠

4♠

 

With 4 of a major, and a minor offering an alternate contract:

 

1♣ 1♥

2NT 3♣*

3♦ 3NT

pass**

 

*=5 diamonds and 4 hearts, not certain about 3NT

**=I am perfectly comfortable in 3NT thankyou

 

1♣ 1♥

2NT 3♣*

3♠** 3NT

 

**=not hugely keen on playing in diamonds, but I do have some stuff in spades if that can help you to bid 3NT

 

1♣ 1♥

2NT 3♣*

3♠** 3NT

4♦*** ...

 

*** Ok I lied. I LOVE diamonds!! 3♠ was actually a cue, just in case you have any slam interest now that we've got a fit

 

1♣ 1♥

2NT 3♠

4♣* 4♦**

6♣

 

*= if you aren't certain about 3NT and have four or more clubs, I'd rather play in 5♣

**= cool, well I'm interested in slam and have a diamond control

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Quantumcat....

 

Here is a hand from Sept, 2009 about what to do over the 2NT rebid:

 

http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/34053-slam-try-after-2nt-rebid/page__p__393388__hl__%2Bslam+%2Btry+%2Bafter+%2B2nt+%2Brebid__fromsearch__1#entry393388

 

Transfers ( among other methods ) were mentioned but no complete sequence was given.

How would you handle this using Transfers?

 

[hv=pc=n&s=skqjhkj7542d5cj98&n=sa532haqdat94ckqt&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1dp1hp2np]266|200[/hv]

 

Edit: 1D open ( not 1C )

[han]

How about making a splinter?

 

I also like to play transfers with the Wortel adjunct: 3C is either diamonds or a single suited slam try. Over 3D you bid 3H to show the slam try. 3D followed by 4D shows hearts and diamonds.

[y66]

Here's what I was taught a few years ago:

 

1m - 1M - 2nt - ?

 

3c = Puppet to 3d

3d = NMF

3M = Natural, gf

3oM = Equal length (H then S = 4-4, S then H = 5-5)

3nt = Obv

 

1m - 1M - 2nt - 3c - 3d - ?

 

3M = To Play

3oM = Slam-try in om (m opener didn't open)

3nt = Slam-try in opener's m.

[Quantumcat]

How would you handle this using Transfers?

 

1♦ 1♥

2NT 3♦

3♥ 4♥

4NT 5♣

6♥

 

- Transferring then bidding game in that suit shows a bit of slam interest. He can't self-splinter in opener's suit. With no slam interest, bid 4♥ instead of 3♦.

 

- If opener would accept a slam invitation and he has three or more hearts, he would cue instead of accepting the transfer (this will also get them to game if responder had a really weak hand and was intending to sign-off in 3♥).

 

- Opener accepted the slam interest, and checked to make sure they weren't missing both ♥K and ♣A (unlikely if he has slam interest, but just in case).

 

However, if the opening was clubs:

 

1♣ 1♥

2NT 4♦

4♠ 5♥

6♥

 

- 4♦ is a self-splinter: slam-invitational or better in hearts.

 

- Opener cuebids (to accept the invitation if it is one) instead of keycarding, since responder is the one who knows what the values are.

 

- Responder obviously has some club losers, which opener can take care of.