Bid this

[blackshoe]

[hv=pc=n&s=sa96hq43dk87cakq9&n=s32haktdaqjt94ct5&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1c1s2dp]266|200[/hv]

 

Agree with the bidding so far? How should the bidding go from here, assuming EW are both passing from now on?

[han]

This seems really easy so maybe I'm missing something.

 

1C - (1S) - 2D

2S - 3D

4D - 4H

4NT - 5S

5NT - 6H

7NT

[Phil]

Agree with Han.

[ArtK78]

I would say that you were missing something (unless I am missing something :) )

 

When did North show a sixth diamond in this auction? Doesn't the 3♦ bid say nothing more than "I don't have anything more to say?"

 

Wouldn't your auction have been identical if the two hands were:

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sa96hq43dk87cakq9&n=s432haktdaqjt9ct5&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1c1s2dp]266|200[/hv]

 

Admittedly, 7NT may still make - there are various ways in which you could make 4 club tricks on this layout. But this does not make 7NT a great contract.

[han]

I would bid 3H with that hand. It doesn't make sense to me to rebid 3D on a 5-card suit.

[blackshoe]

It may be partner and I who missed something. :-)

 

We have different memories of how the table auction went. I'm pretty certain it went

 

1♣-(1♠)-2♦-(P);

2NT-3♦; (opps silent now)

3NT-AP

 

I'm pretty sure 3♦ was an underbid, and passing 3NT was probably a mistake. Not sure if 2NT is right or wrong. Pretty sure 3NT is wrong.

 

Partner is equally certain it went

 

1♣-(1♠)-2♦-P;

3NT-AP

 

I would have been puzzled (as I am now) as to what 3NT might mean*, and I don't recall being puzzled by that at the table, so I think partner is confusing this with another hand.

 

On the auction as I thought it went, I figured partner for a balanced 12-14. I'm probably still worth another try (4♦?) but I didn't take it. :(

 

*I would think major suit stoppers and a running club suit, not a balanced hand, but we haven't discussed this kind of auction, and partner clearly wasn't on that wavelength.

 

Comments?

 

Added: we got 8 of 12 MPs for 3NT making seven. One pair bid 6NT and made 7, another pair went down 2 in some contract. 3 pairs were in 5♦ making 7, everybody else was in 3NT (or possibly 4NT I suppose) making 5 (1 pair) or 7.

[Flameous]

Han, do you always double with 4♥, even if GF? Cause if you don't I'd assume 3♥ to show a real suit.

 

Blackshoe, 2NT rebid seems rather impossible as I assume it's not even forcing in this sequence. 2♠ and 3NT seem to be the only real options.

After 3NT the sequence should at least be easy cause after 4♦ slam try, opener can just keycard and find out everything.

[aguahombre]

This seems really easy so maybe I'm missing something.

 

1C - (1S) - 2D

2S - 3D

4D - 4H

4NT - 5S

5NT - 6H

7NT

 

This is perfect given the OP's "nothing fancy". Ours would work out the same, since 2D is already GF for us. Thus,

 

1c(1S)2d

2S----3d (six of them)

4D*---5C 4D is Wood, because opener can't really imagine a G.F. by pard without a heart control (will pay off if overcall was on XXXXX).

5H* 6H (king ask, and answer)

7N counting tricks.

[Quantumcat]

There's no harm in always doubling with four hearts. You will always get another bid to express the strength of your hand and whatever other suits it contains. Then 3♥ can just be a bid saying "I'm don't have anything to add, except I have most/all of my values in diamonds and hearts"

[whereagles]

Han, what's 6♥?

[Hanoi5]

Han, what's 6♥?

 

Specific Kings

[aguahombre]

There's no harm in always doubling with four hearts. You will always get another bid to express the strength of your hand and whatever other suits it contains. Then 3♥ can just be a bid saying "I'm don't have anything to add, except I have most/all of my values in diamonds and hearts"

 

It is similar to responding 1H to 1m with 4 in hearts, G.F values and longer in the other minor. You can never recover to show relative lengths by the time you have shown the strength.

[mike777]

It may be partner and I who missed something. :-)

 

We have different memories of how the table auction went. I'm pretty certain it went

 

1♣-(1♠)-2♦-(P);

2NT-3♦; (opps silent now)

3NT-AP

 

I'm pretty sure 3♦ was an underbid, and passing 3NT was probably a mistake. Not sure if 2NT is right or wrong. Pretty sure 3NT is wrong.

 

Partner is equally certain it went

 

1♣-(1♠)-2♦-P;

3NT-AP

 

I would have been puzzled (as I am now) as to what 3NT might mean*, and I don't recall being puzzled by that at the table, so I think partner is confusing this with another hand.

 

On the auction as I thought it went, I figured partner for a balanced 12-14. I'm probably still worth another try (4♦?) but I didn't take it. :(

 

*I would think major suit stoppers and a running club suit, not a balanced hand, but we haven't discussed this kind of auction, and partner clearly wasn't on that wavelength.

 

Comments?

 

 

Added: we got 8 of 12 MPs for 3NT making seven. One pair bid 6NT and made 7, another pair went down 2 in some contract. 3 pairs were in 5♦ making 7, everybody else was in 3NT (or possibly 4NT I suppose) making 5 (1 pair) or 7.

 

 

 

fwiw I thought 2nt was terrible here...you show 11-13

 

 

easy 2s and 4d over 3d etc....

[han]

Specific Kings

 

Specifically, the heart king. ;)

[han]

Han, do you always double with 4♥, even if GF? Cause if you don't I'd assume 3♥ to show a real suit.

 

No I don't always double with 4 hearts, so yes, I think opener will expect 4 hearts. This does not mean it is the wrong bid, but perhaps 3S is better.

 

There's no harm in always doubling with four hearts

 

I strongly disagree with this. Especially with a good 6=card diamond suit (and a strong enough hand) I would bid 2D first. If the opponents raise to 4S for example, I'd be happy to have shown my 6-card diamond suit and strentgth instead of my 4-card heart suit and nothing about strength.

[blackshoe]

This seems really easy so maybe I'm missing something.

 

1C - (1S) - 2D

2S - 3D

4D - 4H

4NT - 5S

5NT - 6H

7NT

 

Han, let's see if I understand this auction: 2S is forcing (to game?), 3D shows a sixth diamond, 4D shows a fit and extras (otherwise bid 5D), 4H is a control bid, and then we're into RCKB and specific kings. Have I got it right?

[Finch]

Han, do you always double with 4♥, even if GF? Cause if you don't I'd assume 3♥ to show a real suit.

 

Blackshoe, 2NT rebid seems rather impossible as I assume it's not even forcing in this sequence. 2♠ and 3NT seem to be the only real options.

After 3NT the sequence should at least be easy cause after 4♦ slam try, opener can just keycard and find out everything.

 

While it's quite possible that responder has a 'real' heart suit, opener has denied one by not bidding 2H over 2D, so responder is fairly safe calling the hand a 2=4=5=2 as that is the closest to what he has on the sample 3=3=5=2.

[blackshoe]

Flameous was responding to the original 2=3=6=2 hand, I believe. Certainly that's the hand I posted. The 3=3=5=2 was Art's.

 

As I understand 2/1 (and I may be wrong) in an uncontested auction, 1X-2Y-2NT, 2NT shows a balanced hand of either 12-14 or 18-19 HCP. Is this auction (1♣-(1♠)-2♦-(P)-2NT not similar? Not identical, I realize, because 2♦ is not GF, but if that means 2NT is just 12-14, then 3NT must show 18-19, and I didn't think it did. Partner, OTOH, apparently did if she did indeed bid 3NT over 2♦.

[tolvyrj]

I can easily believe that bidding went for u part; 1♣ - (1♠)-2 ♦- pass - 3NT. After all opener has 18 hcp. balanced hand with a stopper in ♠.

After that responder shld bid 4♦ and depending to the methods u use end up in slam; small or grand ♦ or Nt remains to see.

That the opener would bid 2♠ for her next round sounds peculiar, she has a natural and descriptive bid available, which gives her prd possibility to enter into the bidding sequence. And how can 3♦ over 2♠ mean that responder has 6 ♦ in her hand.

Dont know; bidding is always easier when u c both hands.

[aguahombre]

Flameous was responding to the original 2=3=6=2 hand, I believe. Certainly that's the hand I posted. The 3=3=5=2 was Art's.

 

As I understand 2/1 (and I may be wrong) in an uncontested auction, 1X-2Y-2NT, 2NT shows a balanced hand of either 12-14 or 18-19 HCP. Is this auction (1♣-(1♠)-2♦-(P)-2NT not similar? Not identical, I realize, because 2♦ is not GF, but if that means 2NT is just 12-14, then 3NT must show 18-19, and I didn't think it did. Partner, OTOH, apparently did if she did indeed bid 3NT over 2♦.

1C-(1M)2D

? If 2NT is either 12-14 or 18-19, 2D itself better have been game forcing, or you would be in some silly partscore with 19-opposite 10. Also, in your structure 3NT has no natural meaning, since 15-17 would have started with 1NT.

 

All this means that the jump to 3NT after 2/1, competition or not, is 18-19. For the majority whose 2m in competition is not game forcing, the NT rebids become awkward.

[blackshoe]

There is no reason 2NT after 1x-2y can't show 12-14 or 18-19, because 2NT is forcing to game. If it goes 1x-1y-2NT-3NT, 4NT by opener would now show the 18-19. In the auction 1x-(1y)-2z, the 2z is not (as I understand 2/1) forcing to game, because it shows a minimum of 10 points. So 2NT by opener at this point is not forcing. If 2NT is not forcing, then it cannot contain 18-19 HCP. Thus 3NT is needed to show that hand. In the uncontested auction, 3NT is not needed for that purpose, so 3NT should show some other hand type, presumably one based on a long suit. So I would agree that the jump to 3NT in competition shows a balanced 18-19, but not in an uncontested auction. IAC I see now that my assumption at the table was wrong - partner must have a balanced 12-14 if she bid 2NT after the auction starts 1x-(1y)-2z-(P), and a balanced 18-19 if she bids 3NT. Since she actually had the latter hand, either she really did bid 3NT, or she clearly misbid. So perhaps my memory is faulty and she didn't bid 2NT.

[aguahombre]

In the uncontested auction, 3NT is not needed for that purpose, so 3NT should show some other hand type, presumably one based on a long suit.

 

There are other considerations, based on what our other agreements are, in deciding whether the Jump to 3NT after an uncontested 2/1 is "needed" with 18-19, or needed with certain 18-19's.

 

One might be that if the opening was 1M, the 3NT rebid is used to show the exact size and shape immediately (the two-card holding is in pard's response suit). Thus, 2NT raised to 3NT and followed by 4y would have allowed responder a helpful 3-level rebid, still showing the 18-19 range but with 3-card support for y. And 1M-2Y-2N-3N-4N! Could be based on some other pattern we decide and 18-19.

 

In the Auction:

1D-2C

2NT...2NT can be 12-14 or 18-19, but always 4-4-3-2. So, the jump to 3NT would show 3-3-5-2 with 18-19.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

[hv=pc=n&s=sa96hq43dk87cakq9&n=s32haktdaqjt94ct5&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1c1s2dp]266|200[/hv]

 

Agree with the bidding so far? How should the bidding go from here, assuming EW are both passing from now on?

South

1C - ( 1S ) - 2D = 5+cards, 10+ hcp forcing 1 Rnd

??

... 2NT = 12-14... which can be passed

... 3NT = 15-17 w/Sp-stop(s)

... 2S! = only way to force w/strong hand, not necessarily Diam support

 

Soooo after:

2S! - 3D ( I don't think this guarantees 6 cards )

3S! ( now this should be an Advance cue for Diam as trump )

 

3S! - 4H ( Ctrl cue, denying Cl Ctrl )

4NT ( RKC for Diam ) - 5S ( 2 + dQ )

6D

[tolvyrj]

So u have no way of showing bal. 18-19 count hand? What is u 1Nt opening range?